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  • FIRST POST
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 15th Jul 17, 11:49 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Mizmo
    BHX Apcoa PCN
    • #1
    • 15th Jul 17, 11:49 PM
    BHX Apcoa PCN 15th Jul 17 at 11:49 PM
    Hi,

    Please forgive any mistakes I make during this explanation as this is my first time at such a thing.

    I have received a PCN through the post from Apcoa. It was for parking on double reds whilst passenger got out of the car. (Traffic was tailing back so I used a side road and turned back)

    Iv been reading most of the posts and believe I can get away with this , as it is a private company, or am I wrong?

    I have this template to hand, if I need to amend please do advise and all help is greatly appreciated. Also to add I don't understand the acronyms related to this subject.

    "Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.!Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.!

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.!

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,"

    Is that the correct template to use and should I add anything to this?
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 16th Jul 17, 12:01 AM
    • 7,235 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:01 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:01 AM
    bit late telling them that you will sue them if they get your data from the DVLA , they already have!!

    and they do not give a monkeys about distress ,
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 16th Jul 17, 12:10 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:10 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 12:10 AM
    What will be the correct template to use?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 16th Jul 17, 7:39 AM
    • 10,061 Posts
    • 9,147 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:39 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:39 AM
    If you were in a traffic jam with the queue stopped, then you did not stop per se but we're prevented from moving.
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 16th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    Maybe I was not clear enough in explaining the situation so I will try again.

    I did not stop in the traffic but pull into a side road ,which is before the drop off point (which is red routed) once dropped off I left and headed out of the airport.

    Do I have grounds to appeal or do I pay the PCN?
    • Disco1972
    • By Disco1972 16th Jul 17, 9:16 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Disco1972
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:16 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:16 AM
    Yes this is the correct template you need to use to appeal to APCOA. Just add your details and send the template as it is. Make sure that you do not state who the driver was.


    I was advised to edit the tread you posted so that if anyone checks the forum they cannot tie this to you. i.e. stating who the driver is.


    Apparently APCOA will reject the appeal with a load of counter claims and threats but this is all part of their money making scam. They're in it for the money and it makes no difference to them what grounds you are appealing against.


    The next stage is the important one. You'll get a POPLA code when APCOA reject your appeal. If you look further down the NEWBIES tread it provides information and links for the appeal to POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) you can also search for "POPLA Appeal" to copy and tailor your appeal. There's quite a few on here and doesn't take very long. If you post it on here before submitting the experts will make sure its ok.


    At the point POPLA open the appeal with APCOA is apparently when APCOA will fold. They wont risk losing in court as it would put an end to the whole PCN rip off.


    This is just what I've read from information on here. Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    • 40,189 Posts
    • 80,274 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    Of course you don't pay a scammer.

    Just use the BPA template in blue from the NEWBIES thread without any alterations. Copy and paste and send from the keeper.

    You should first edit your posts to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Keeper and The Driver, who are two different people as far as anyone is concerned.

    If/when the appeal is rejected you construct a PoPLA appeal using the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES. Post your draft here for checking before you send it, but you are not at that stage yet so you will have plenty of time to research it. Byelaws probably apply so you would probably win on that point alone if they do.

    Acronyms are explained in the NEWBIES as well by the way.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:20 AM
    Just send that template as it is. They don't pay any real attention to it. Its main purpose is to indicate you are receiving forum assistance and to elicit a POPLA code when they reject your initial appeal.

    Once you've got your POPLA code, you're then in business and can get the charge cancelled.

    Send your initial appeal in via the method advised on the APCOA NtK. Don't forget to put your name, address and NtK reference number in your appeal. Don't miss their deadline.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 16-07-2017 at 9:23 AM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 16th Jul 17, 9:45 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:45 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 9:45 AM
    Which template is the original, as I am sure this is the same as the on in the newbie forum??

    What grounds is the appeal on , the driver has parked on double reds does that not mean they are in breach of highway code so therefore should face a penalty?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jul 17, 10:41 AM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Use the template in blue text. The same as the one you've copied above. Have you altered it in any way?

    the driver has parked on double reds does that not mean they are in breach of highway code so therefore should face a penalty?
    If these were real double reds it would be the council issuing you with a real penalty charge.

    APCOA has no right to issue charges on a road covered by Road Traffic Acts. So you can be sure this was a private road where double reds have no legal meaning.

    Just get your POPLA code then we will advise further. You are going to confuse yourself by trying to run before you can walk.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Jul 17, 11:00 AM
    • 40,189 Posts
    • 80,274 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Which template is the original, as I am sure this is the same as the on in the newbie forum??

    What grounds is the appeal on , the driver has parked on double reds does that not mean they are in breach of highway code so therefore should face a penalty?
    Originally posted by Mizmo
    My mistake. I thought you had amended the template but having checked I see I was wrong. My apologies.

    The initial appeal template is designed only to get you a PoPLA code and show the scammers you are getting forum help. You save all your real appeal points, based on legal arguments, for PoPLA.

    Forget the red lines. They are a red herring. Byelaws, if they apply, and the other template points from post 3 of the NWBIES will sort this out.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 16th Jul 17, 11:41 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    Thank you so much for the help! I will send out the appeal right away.

    Will keep you guys posted
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Aug 17, 11:54 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,416 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Did you see this result?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5670148

    As expected.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 18th Aug 17, 1:38 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    Hi guys I have got a reply from apcoa and the appeal has been rejected..

    Thank you for your letter of appeal received xx/xx/xx against the Parking Charge Notice
    issued by us to you on xx/xx/xx.

    Having carefully considered the evidence provided by
    you, we must advise your appeal has been unsuccessful on this occasion.

    Your vehicle was observed parked on a red route; red routes are in operation around the
    airport site in order to maintain the safety of our passengers, visitors and staff. Drivers are
    prohibited to stop, unload or park on the red routes or zig zag lines, which are clearly marked
    around the airport roads via signage and double red road markings.

    A vehicle monitoring and
    enforcement operation is in place, with an enforcement charge of £100. Please note nobody
    is allowed to enter/exit the vehicle in any circumstance on the airport roads or red route.

    As per the images below your vehicle would have had to pass a no stopping at any time sign,
    there are over 20 signs around the Birmingham International Airport advising drivers that
    this is a no stopping area.

    In response to your comment made in your letter, please note notices only need to be issued
    within 14 days if the notice issued mentions “under Protection of Freedoms Act”. According
    to British Parking Association (BPA) guidelines, the maximum permitted time to notify the
    registered keeper is no more than 28 days after receiving keeper data from DVLA which
    takes no more than 35 days.

    Once we receive the registered keeper information we issue a
    notice to the customer, and no more than six months after the unauthorized parking event.

    It is our understanding that as we have not referred to this act in our documentation, we are
    able to work in accordance with the BPA code of practise (June 2013) which states that we
    have up to 28 days to deliver a postal PCN from the date of contravention.
    Please note as the registered keeper of this vehicle, you are liable for this ticket, unless
    details of the driver are provided.

    For the avoidance of doubt you should note any offer included in your letter other than to make
    payment in full of the Parking charge notice is hereby rejected.

    Whilst we appreciate the points mentioned in your letter, however they do not justify the
    cancellation of the notice, as a driver it is your responsibility to make sure you follow the
    instruction on the signage.

    As your vehicle was parked in contravention of the terms and conditions of the car park we
    are satisfied that the notice was correctly issued in accordance with the BPA code of practice,
    and are therefore not able to waiver the charge on this occasion.

    Therefore you now have a number of options:
    1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted price of £50.00 within 14 days.

    Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will increase to
    £100.00.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Aug 17, 9:50 AM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Did they issue you with a 10-digit POPLA code?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Aug 17, 2:19 PM
    • 15,167 Posts
    • 19,118 Thanks
    Redx
    your "rejection letter" is a standard template rejection, ignore it EXCEPT for the popla reference it should contain

    so if you have a popla code from apcoa , adapt the popla appeal you found in that other thread and follow the same instructions about submitting it online by choosing OTHER and uploading the completed appeal in PDF format

    so no different to previous cases apart from removing or adapting what is said so no lies or inaccuracies are told

    any recent BHX or LUTON apcoa popla appeal will do , and there are several recent ones to choose from, so just follow the same path as the others have done
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Aug 17, 3:25 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,416 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Same as expected, now win at POPLA. We've never lost an APCOA one and won't start now!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 19th Aug 17, 12:48 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    Umkomaas yes I have received the code (popla verification code)

    Redx do I find the popla appeal in the newbies post or are you refering to disco's thread?

    (Sorry about the delayed response guys, I work crazy hours and had not had the time to come on here til now)
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Aug 17, 9:50 AM
    • 14,034 Posts
    • 22,042 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So you use the POPLA code with an appeal based on the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 ready made templates and by searching for othe winning appeals by searching on 'APCOA POPLA BHX' for very apposite examples.

    Let us see your draft before submitting. Don't miss your POPLA deadline. APCOA will discontinue once they see a forum assisted appeal.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Mizmo
    • By Mizmo 19th Aug 17, 7:00 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mizmo
    If been trying to find the newbies post but had no luck, it hasn't been removed has it?

    As I did a search and found another thread.

    Also once I find the template, how do I actually appeal with popla, is there a address or a site I go on?
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