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    • Tacosss1985
    • By Tacosss1985 14th Jul 17, 9:29 PM
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    Tacosss1985
    Expired tenancy my rights?
    • #1
    • 14th Jul 17, 9:29 PM
    Expired tenancy my rights? 14th Jul 17 at 9:29 PM
    Ok so hi everyone I've looked here before but never joined, I really need help
    So I'm moving out my house private rented and into a new one. My tenancy with my current home expired last year and the landlady never bothered with a new one despite me saying it was in both our interests. I've written a 4 week notice letter but she's on holiday so won't receive it yet (I didn't know this until I spoke with next door whose house she also own) my house question is does my notice still stand? From when I sent it?
    Also I have a deposit of £500 to get back but the carpets need replacing this is due to rats getting in 3 times and mucking up with their paws, I paid for private pest control once but I don't think they are reason to keep my deposit?? I can't control the holes in the property on the outside which is how they get in and despite me paying £164 in pest control and them making recommendations to pest proof she never did
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Jul 17, 9:43 PM
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    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 14th Jul 17, 9:43 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jul 17, 9:43 PM
    Assuming this is England or Wales then whilst the fixed term may have ended you still have a legally binding AST.

    Notice "stands" from when it is served not when you post it. If you sent it 1st class then it is deemed served 2 working days later.

    Read Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

    As for your deposit read...

    Deposits: payment, protection and return
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 14-07-2017 at 9:45 PM.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • macman
    • By macman 14th Jul 17, 10:18 PM
    • 41,320 Posts
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    macman
    • #3
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:18 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:18 PM
    Was your deposit protected? If so, just apply for it's return through the relevant scheme. If it wasn't, you can sue for 3 times it's value, so that's pretty strong leverage for getting your full deposit back without deductions.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Tacosss1985
    • By Tacosss1985 14th Jul 17, 10:42 PM
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    Tacosss1985
    • #4
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:42 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:42 PM
    Yes England,
    Ok but I sent it recorded and she hasn't signed for it because she's on holiday should I wait to count the 4 weeks until it's recieved and signed for as per the Royal Mail website? Or since I have no power over when she goes on holiday can I count the 4 weeks as to when it was attempted delivery (or 2 days later)?
    No it isn't protected she said it was but I got no letter saying so like it did When I rented though a letting agent I got one saying it was in the deposit scheme and then another to say it wasn't when I moved out then I got it back within about a week
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
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    G_M
    • #5
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
    ....My tenancy with my current home expired last year and the landlady never bothered with a new one despite me saying it was in both our interests.
    I've no idea why you think that, but never mind!

    I've written a 4 week notice letter
    What makes you think 4 weeks is enough?
    Is your tenancy now a Contractual Periodic Tenancy with 4 weeks notice written into the contract?

    but she's on holiday so won't receive it yet
    irrelevant.
    So long as you serve it, at the proper time, to the correct address, then you have complied with the requirement.
    You are not responsible for when she goes on holiday, or, indeed, whether she chooses to only open her post on a weekly basis.

    ... does my notice still stand?
    Yes, IF (and only if) the contract for your CPT states 4 weeks notice, and you served it at the corrct address.
    Though my guess is that 4 weeks is not enough.

    From when I sent it?
    No. From when it is served.

    Also I have a deposit of £500 to get back but the carpets need replacing this is due to rats getting in 3 times and mucking up with their paws,
    Depends who is responsible for the rats.
    eg if you constantly leave food scraps around you may be at least partially responsible.

    I paid for private pest control once but I don't think they are reason to keep my deposit??
    Depends on the full circumstances which we don't know.

    I can't control the holes in the property on the outside which is how they get in
    True.
    But did you act in a 'tenant-like manner' and report the problems (both the rats and the holes) in writing to the LL at the correct address?
    and despite me paying £164 in pest control and them making recommendations to pest proof she never did
    Originally posted by Tacosss1985
    Ah!. OK. How did you make the recommendations?

    Now see the links pixie provided abbove.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jul 17, 10:51 PM
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    Yes England,
    Ok but I sent it recorded and she hasn't signed for it because she's on holiday should I wait to count the 4 weeks until it's recieved and signed for as per the Royal Mail website? Or since I have no power over when she goes on holiday can I count the 4 weeks as to when it was attempted delivery (or 2 days later)?
    No it isn't protected she said it was but I got no letter saying so like it did When I rented though a letting agent I got one saying it was in the deposit scheme and then another to say it wasn't when I moved out then I got it back within about a week
    Originally posted by Tacosss1985
    Send it 1st class. It is 'served' 2 days after posting 1st class. Send from a post office and ask for 'proof of posting' (NOT 'signed for').

    I repeat, are you sure 4 weeks is correct notice? Do you pay rent weekly or monthly? Do you have a CPT?
    • Tacosss1985
    • By Tacosss1985 14th Jul 17, 11:01 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    Tacosss1985
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:01 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:01 PM
    My tenancy agreement the only one I have says 4 weeks notice so I was just going off that, it's titled ' assured shorthold tenancy agreement' if that helps. And I pay rent weekly
    I got the recommendations off the pest control engineer who found the holes. I don't leave food out im pretty clean. We have a lot of fly tipping here though that I can't control but neither can my landlady, I don't want to mess her around I just want to do the right thing
    • Tacosss1985
    • By Tacosss1985 15th Jul 17, 12:23 AM
    • 10 Posts
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    Tacosss1985
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 17, 12:23 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 17, 12:23 AM
    @g_m
    I thought it was in both our Interest for a new agreement so we had everything on paper and in date plus I get part LHA it's only £40 a month but it still helps I only work 30 hours so if the council ever questioned my tenancy for whatever reason I would have a current one to show them. Plus as for the landlady I feel my tenancy duties are best up to date and in writing, maybe I'm wrong I don't know how it all works!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    • 41,478 Posts
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    @g_m
    I thought it was in both our Interest for a new agreement so we had everything on paper and in date plus I get part LHA it's only £40 a month but it still helps I only work 30 hours so if the council ever questioned my tenancy for whatever reason I would have a current one to show them. Plus as for the landlady I feel my tenancy duties are best up to date and in writing, maybe I'm wrong I don't know how it all works!
    Originally posted by Tacosss1985
    Please quote, in full, the relevant clauses in your original tenancy agreement relating to:

    * what happens when the fixed term ends

    * what notice is required.

    Your vague statement is not enough. Exact words needed.

    Do you pay rent weekly or monthly? (or quarterly?)
    • alleycat465
    • By alleycat465 20th Jul 17, 4:04 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    alleycat465
    13. Expiry of the tenancy 'if the tenant stays in the property after the tenancy has expired then a statutory periodic tenancy shall arise'
    14 any notices to the landlord shall be deemed properly served if 14.1.1 sent by first class post to the landlords address
    14.1.2 left at the landlords address given in clause 14.4

    That's all I have in this contract that seems relevant I'm sure I saw 4 weeks somewhere but must have been my old agreement when the estate agents were looking after the property I pay my rent weekly
    (Sorry new username wouldn't let me log in with the other one)
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 20th Jul 17, 10:04 AM
    • 196 Posts
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    DumbMuscle
    (Edited based on discussion below)

    OK - you are on an SPT, which means your notice period is 1 month 4 weeks, and must end at the end of a tenancy period (i.e., since you pay weekly, on the same day of the week as the original AST ended). As said above, you should serve notice by first class post, not signed for/recorded (but get proof of postage). The effective date of service is 2 days after it was posted (or the next business day, if that day would be a weekend).

    For example, if your original AST ended on a Friday, and you posted the letter today (20 July), the notice would be deemed served on 24 July (20 July +2 days = 22 July, which is a Saturday, so this rolls over to Monday), your notice cannot expire before 24 August (1 month from service) 21 August (4 weeks from service), and must expire at the end of a tenancy period (i.e. on a Friday), so the earliest you could give notice for would be 25 August.

    Alternatively, if you physically go to the landlord's address and drop the letter through the letterbox yourself, then it is served immediately - but you probably don't gain much advantage from this meaning that if you did so today or tomorrow you could give notice for 18 August (4 weeks from tomorrow).
    Last edited by DumbMuscle; 20-07-2017 at 10:47 AM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 20th Jul 17, 10:09 AM
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    Pixie5740
    OK - you are on an SPT, which means your notice period is 1 month, and must end at the end of a tenancy period (i.e., since you pay weekly, on the same day of the week as the original AST ended). As said above, you should serve notice by first class post, not signed for/recorded (but get proof of postage). The effective date of service is 2 days after it was posted (or the next business day, if that day would be a weekend).

    For example, if your original AST ended on a Friday, and you posted the letter today (20 July), the notice would be deemed served on 23 July (20 July +2 days = 22 July, which is a Sunday, so this rolls over to Monday), your notice cannot expire before 23 August (1 month from service), and must expire at the end of a tenancy period (i.e. on a Friday), so the earliest you could give notice for would be 25 August.

    Alternatively, if you physically go to the landlord's address and drop the letter through the letterbox yourself, then it is served immediately - but you probably don't gain much advantage from this.
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle
    Close but no cigar. The OP states that rent is paid weekly therefore the tenancy periods are not 1 month long but 7 days long meaning the OP has to give 28 days notice aligning with the tenancy start date.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • SeduLOUs
    • By SeduLOUs 20th Jul 17, 10:13 AM
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    SeduLOUs
    Close but no cigar. The OP states that rent is paid weekly therefore the tenancy periods are not 1 month long but 7 days long meaning the OP has to give 28 days notice aligning with the tenancy start date.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I believe his version is correct - 1 month notice needed ending on the last day of a tenancy period.
    Last edited by SeduLOUs; 20-07-2017 at 10:16 AM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 20th Jul 17, 10:14 AM
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    Pixie5740
    That's precisely what he described?
    Originally posted by SeduLOUs
    No he didn't. There are not 28 days in a month except for 3 out of 4 Februaries.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • SeduLOUs
    • By SeduLOUs 20th Jul 17, 10:17 AM
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    SeduLOUs
    No he didn't. There are not 28 days in a month except for 3 out of 4 Februaries.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Edited... Sorry I missed the difference, but believe the original version to be correct.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 20th Jul 17, 10:26 AM
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    saajan_12
    On a monthly SPT, the notice would be one tenancy period (i.e. one month, ending on the last day of a tenancy period).

    On a weekly SPT, the notice is 4 tenancy periods ie 4 weeks / 28 days, ending on the last day of a tenancy period.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 20th Jul 17, 10:33 AM
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    Pixie5740
    Edited... Sorry I missed the difference, but believe the original version to be correct.
    Originally posted by SeduLOUs
    Well it's not because rent is paid weekly and tenancy periods are based on the frequency of rent payments.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • SeduLOUs
    • By SeduLOUs 20th Jul 17, 10:39 AM
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    SeduLOUs
    On a monthly SPT, the notice would be one tenancy period (i.e. one month, ending on the last day of a tenancy period).

    On a weekly SPT, the notice is 4 tenancy periods ie 4 weeks / 28 days, ending on the last day of a tenancy period.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Not according to GM's post linked above...
    a) A tenant can end a SPT by giving the landlord at least one months Notice in writing ending on the last (or 1st day - Crate v Miller 1947) of a Tenancy Period sent to the address "for the serving of notices".
    If rent is paid monthly/weekly, then the Tenancy Periods run monthly/weekly starting the day after the FT ended.

    Shelter website agrees with you that it should be 4 weeks.

    Learn something new every day...
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 20th Jul 17, 10:44 AM
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    DumbMuscle
    Huh, OK - I was working off G_M's guide, so that may need editing (though it doesn't actually change the earliest notice date in my example)

    Edited my original post.

    Also, I thought today was a Friday for some reason (probably because I'm off work tomorrow to sort my own move)
    Last edited by DumbMuscle; 20-07-2017 at 10:47 AM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 20th Jul 17, 11:02 AM
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    Pixie5740
    Huh, OK - I was working off G_M's guide, so that may need editing (though it doesn't actually change the earliest notice date in my example)

    Edited my original post.

    Also, I thought today was a Friday for some reason (probably because I'm off work tomorrow to sort my own move)
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle
    It doesn't alter the start date of the notice period but crucially it changes the end date of the notice period and as you're about to find out the most action takes place in the final days of moving. I hope your move goes smoothly.
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 20-07-2017 at 11:04 AM.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
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