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  • FIRST POST
    • MrsG2711.
    • By MrsG2711. 14th Jul 17, 10:32 AM
    • 10Posts
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    MrsG2711.
    Claim form-county court business centre
    • #1
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:32 AM
    Claim form-county court business centre 14th Jul 17 at 10:32 AM
    I have received a claim letter via Gladstone solicitors on behalf of uk car park management.

    So far I have ignored all correspondence, I have done this as the pcn (invoice) was received in a residential car park where no revenue is being generated. Everyone I know who has received these invoices have ignored them but now I am unsure as to whether I should respond. I don't see how I can be fined if no revenue is being lost.

    I am thinking of just ignoring this letter too as this is simply a processing centre and their letters look like copies of an original

    Any advice welcome
Page 4
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Aug 17, 5:59 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Can I reference verbal information supplied by tenants if they offer their name and address?
    No, hearsay is pointless. Get them all to sign & date their own witness statements, even if they can't attend court with you, the weight of numbers of evidence and WS (to accompany your own) will help you.

    Do the courts recognise the possible conflict of interest in the Directors of Gladstones solicitors
    Some court areas have marked their card, e.g. Skipton and Manchester are good!

    I have requested boundaries of the parking area that is supposed to be patrolled as I believe the place I was ticketed is not in the jurisdiction of the parking company, I have written to land registry for confirmation and the housing, is there anywhere else I can get this information from?
    I would have thought you could buy the definitive map from the LR online in minutes, for £3.50 - you don't write letters to LR, it's too slow. Try to get this now, this week.

    I now have a circular that was sent to the tenants from the parking company letting them know that they are now 'managing' the car park, it does not even say who they have been instructed by. This is surely proof of breach of tenancy agreement as the housing trust did not even write to tenants introducing the parking company. Additionally, just for kicks, I also have photos of the parking officer, blocking the entrance/exit whilst ticketing, proving that he has no regards for the rules he is there to enforce.
    Good, include it all in evidence, and the photos, and the other residents' WS, and any other evidence like the transcripts of PACE v Noor, Saeed v Plustrade, and the Jopson v Homeguard appeal case transcript, and show us your draft WS.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 30th Aug 17, 9:14 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    I have obtained info from land registry website but it is not clear, the parking area has properties on either side of the carpark both showing the same boundary.

    The tenant has requested this information from the landowner who have said they will look into it. They should know the boundary/area they asked to be patrolled, but they may not want to offer the information
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 31st Aug 17, 6:19 AM
    • 1,958 Posts
    • 3,452 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    just for kicks, I also have photos of the parking officer, blocking the entrance/exit whilst ticketing, proving that he has no regards for the rules he is there to enforce.
    AFAIK blocking is a criminal matter under the Protection of Freedoms Act. Perhaps the HA should be informed and the individual removed from post before the matter is reported as a criminal matter.

    It will be an offence to clamp, tow, block-in or immobilise a vehicle without lawful authority on private land under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 31st Aug 17, 8:41 AM
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    MrsG2711
    I was wondering whether I should send these to the landonwner now or wait until i send my witness statement to the court
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Aug 17, 2:53 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    I would send stuff to the landowner/MA now, and ask for that map/boundary or for them to confirm that there is no defined site boundary (in which case how can they have instructed/contracted with a parking firm?!)

    By doing this now, you might get a useful reply in time for your WS (and other people's WS, start gathering those too) that can be used in evidence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 5th Sep 17, 9:42 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    I received a response back from the landowner regarding the incriminating photos but they didn't seem to care. They said they have passed them on and the parking company will speak to the warden. They ignored my request for their escalation process but I will not leave it there.

    I wondered if I am permitted to request the claimants evidence as they have seen my defence?

    The landowner also said that basically the parking company patrol the whole area. I have re read the circular/letter that the pc sent to the tenants and it references acess and emergency areas only, therefore does not correspond to their signage.

    I hope the court see the complete shambles in how both the housing and parking company run their businesses
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Sep 17, 8:00 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    You will get to see the evidence when they send their WS and you will send your evidence too.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 18th Nov 17, 1:45 PM
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    MrsG2711
    I now have an opportunity to add to my defence statement as I requested this due to the tenant not being able to gather the correct information in time.

    A quick summary: I parked under my nieces tenancy agreement that permitted parking for herself and visitors. It has now come to light that she signed T&Cs varying her current tenancy.

    After emailing the tenants housing requesting that this is to be taken seriously as it is a court case and anything that comes up in court that I, on behalf of the tenant, had requested and not received, I shall ask to be struck out. They then send a document signed by the tenant varying her T&Cs, (x3 months after the SAR took place). They are obviously in liaison with the PC solicitors!

    In the T&Cs there is a generic statement which reads along the lines of ‘if there is a parking company in place the tenant has to comply with the rules of the PC’. Although these rules have never been clearly set out, and have been changed by the PC.

    The date the tenant signed and returned accepting the varied T&Cs is after the parking company had already sent out a very confusing diagram/site plan to the tenants, it does not mention that PCNs would be issued, it ask that tenants do not park in certain areas other than designated areas but no further explanation, it also mentions a 10 minute grace period. This document passed from the PC to the housing when the SAR request took place.


    Almost a year later the PC send a letter/circular titled ‘Parking Restrictions’ to the tenants saying that they have been requested to operate a parking management & enforcement service to alleviate the problem with unauthorised parking and that this would be in place x2 weeks after the date of the letter/circular. It does not mention who they have been requested by and it makes no reference to the ‘grace period in their previous document. This document was also passed from the PC to the housing when the SAR request took place.

    The x2 documents from the PC do not match the current signage and make no reference to it. It may be that the PC has sent further information but it was not given to the housing with the other x2 documents when the SAR took place.

    The housing say that they have given the running of the carpark to the PC and any correspondence should be with the PC. Is it worth me trying to establish what letters the PC sent to the tenants or am I wasting my time at this stage?

    Any guidance is welcomed!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Nov 17, 4:57 PM
    • 5,190 Posts
    • 3,654 Thanks
    KeithP
    So despite earlier hiccups, you are still arbitrarily using two usernames.

    Plenty of scope for confusion here.

    I'll leave you to it.
    .
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Nov 17, 6:15 PM
    • 5,190 Posts
    • 3,654 Thanks
    KeithP
    Could you perhaps be signing in to MSE forums on two different devices?

    If so, make sure that you are signing in with the same username and password on both devices.

    Just an idea.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 17, 6:21 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Hi,
    I wonder if you have time to take a look at my last post.

    3 months after the SAR, the housing have now provided signed t&cs from the tenant. The tenant did not recall signing these and they were not on her file. This obviously changes how I go about my case and I now have a chance to add to it as I emailed the court.

    The letter/circular from the PC sent to tenants regarding enforcement and issuing of PCNs was nearly a year after the signed T&Cs which were quite generic saying that the tenant had to comply with any parking company rules if in place. The rules at the time of the new T&Cs did not include enforcement and Ticket to be issued. Am I right is assuming the PC cannot make such changes without a process.
    Originally posted by Lisamrie
    You can argue that no contract was formed to pay £100 for parking, because the tenants already enjoyed that right and no adequate notice of same was provided that the tenant signed, so there was no variation of contract.

    The difficulty might be the bit in bold above...personally I would avoid putting that page of the original tenancy agreement into evidence and use other ways of proving the tenancy started on xx/xx/xx, then show the circular, which you should describe as no more than a newsletter and not something that the tenant recalls being delivered to all residents.

    Hopefully you can also say this, if true):

    - Nor did the circular state that the t&cs being newly placed on site affected existing tenants,
    - It stated that the aim was to deter 'unauthorised' parking (which a tenant is not)
    - It established no 'relevant obligation' nor 'relevant contract' that could vary the lease
    - It stated no parking charge sum of money, so that charge cannot have been 'agreed' - ergo, no contract & no possibility of overriding existing established rights
    - The tenant does not even recall ever seeing this circular, and certainly signed nothing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 17, 6:43 PM
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    • 66,449 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The words in bold were not in the original tenancy, the original tenancy agreement permitted parking.
    Good, you must use that as evidence then, along with the transcripts of Jopson v Homeguard (an appeal case, so it has weight and is persuasive on the lower courts) and Pace v Noor.

    The bold words relate to the T&Cs sent in 2013. The PC sent their enforcement letter to tenants in 2014 although the parking company had sent a confusing flyer in 2013 but this did not prohibit parking or mention enforcement.
    Both sound like flyers/newsletters so don't call either an 'enforcement letter'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 23rd Nov 17, 9:48 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    Lost Posts
    Unfortunately when the administrator deleted my other userame i lost some posts.

    I believe i lost a respsonse from coupon mad to the following:

    The amended T&Cs have this about parking:
    'You must make sure that you and other members of your household or visitors only park vehicles in the parking areas. If a parking scheme is in operation you and they must only park with a valid permit. You must not park where vehicles could block emergency exits'

    These T&Cs are from 2013 but the flyer regarding enforcement was sent from the parking company to tenants in 2014. Permits have never been in use

    Surely these T&Cs cannot vary the existing agreement with permission to park. They refer to a scheme that is not in existence.
    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 23rd Nov 17, 10:32 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    Please ignore- I have found email address
    Does anybody have an email address for Gladstones Solicitors? cannot find it on internet
    Last edited by MrsG2711; 23-11-2017 at 1:55 PM. Reason: not required
    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 23rd Nov 17, 4:00 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    Part 18
    Hi


    In response to part 18 requesting information, I got this response


    CPR 27.2 (1) (f) which states that Part 18 Requests do not apply to those cases allocated to the small claims track.


    I looked it up and it seems correct-should I not bother with this request?
    • MrsG2711
    • By MrsG2711 12th Dec 17, 5:05 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MrsG2711
    Draft witness Statement (not defendat)
    I, xxxx - of Xxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    This witness statement contains facts that I believe true and current
    I am the tenant at the above address and have a signed starter tenancy agreement datedxxxxx permitting parking for myself and visitors. (Page xx of original tenancy agreement).


    1. I do not own a car, therefore do not require parking but do rely on the ability for pick up and drop off as was the case when this invoice was issued. I have tried to get clarity from Xxxx Xxxx and XXXX Parking as all documentation is inconsistent. Xxxx Xxxx refer me to the parking company. The parking company has sent confusing information which contradicts itself (see detail listed against point 9). The housing permit their contractors to park their vans in the car park even though the signs read No Parking and No Parking at Any Time. I believe parking enforcement has been introduced to earn revenue for both XXX and XXX parking.


    2. On xdate I signed the 20xx Terms and Conditions to upgrade my starter tenancy to an AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy). Page xx under the heading ‘Parking’ reads ‘You must make sure that you and other members of your household or visitors only park vehicles in the parking areas. If a parking scheme is in operation you and they must only park with a valid permit. You must not park where vehicles could block emergency access or exit points, or where they could cause inconvenience, nuisance or a potential danger’.
    3. This does not say that parking is prohibited neither does it say that a parking enforcement scheme would be put in place, therefore my understanding is that parking for myself and visitors is permitted and as permits have not been distributed we do not have to display one.
    4. Xxxx Xxxx did not send a letter regarding the introduction of a parking enforcement company therefore I do not accept that my Tenancy Agreement was varied regarding this. I was not personally consulted or written to asking about my concerns. I was not given a 28 day notice to give any concerns. The Parking enforcement began on xdate, 14 days after the circular was distributed from XXXX Parking. Even if XXXX Parking had permission to change my tenancy agreement they failed to provide a 28 day notice period.
    5. Xxxx Xxxx have not altered my agreement, they have simply given over the running of the car park to XXXX parking and when questioned I am told that I need to contact the parking company.
    6. On xdate my friend (Defendant-Xxxx) was dropping me and my children home after shopping. I was unable to carry everything and asked for help into the lift and up to my flat. This took no longer than 10 minutes and when she got back to her car she had a ticket from XXXX parking. I told her that my tenancy agreement permits parking therefore drop off is not a problem and the parking company ticket everyone even taxis when dropping off.
    7. Xxxx Xxxx tell me that parking is not allowed but when I challenge them, as it is permitted in my tenancy agreement they do not give an adequate answer and just say that I have to deal with the parking company. I called the parking company back in xdate when they put up signs and they did not listen to the fact that my tenancy agreement permitted parking.
    8. Xxxx Xxxx has neglected to abide by the ‘Altering the Agreement’ steps written in the 20xx T&Cs (page x) in allowing a third party ‘XXXX Parking’ to change the terms which disadvantage tenants. There was no Notice of Variation stating the proposed variation
    9. I submitted a SAR (Data Protection) request to Xxxx regarding documents held on my file relating to my tenancy agreement and any other relevant information particularly relating to parking at Xxxx. (copy of xxxxx email enclosed) confirming that these are the only documents Xxxx hold on my file relating to car parking at Xxxx.
    The only document on my file, as confirmed by Xxxx Data Protection Officer was:
    > Tenancy Agreement signed 20xx
    The following documents were requested by Xxxx and received from XXXX parking on xdate
    > XXX plan - I did not receive this at the time. The information unclear, it relates to a grace period that no longer exists and an emergency area that is not marked.
    >XXXX parking circular dated xxx regarding parking restrictions sent to residents. This circular is not personally addressed to me, it does not state who instructed XXXX Parking to start enforcement, neither does it give a 28 day notice period. The circular refers to permit status when permits are not in use. The circular reads ‘Our aim is to ensure a safer parking facility for all residents of Xxxx.’ This circular is not clear in its meaning, the previous statement implies that parking is permitted with a permit, it even has an email address for permits.
    10. I have been emailing Xxxx (specifically xxxxxxxxx) since August regarding any other information supplied whether on file or not, regarding tenancy and parking but they have not provided any other documentation to prove the fact that my tenancy agreement was varied.
    In response to my recent requests for any information sent to tenants regarding the parking situation the responses I have received from Xxxx @ Xxxx are as follows:
    >xdate – email sent requesting further info if it exists and information regarding the contract with XXXX Parking
    >xdate – Xxxx response “I’m still awaiting the information. As soon as I have this, I’ll respond to you”
    >xDate – Xxxx response “I’ve asked for guidance from my manager and I’ll ensure I get back to you by xpm on XXXX”
    >xDate Xxxx response to Xxxx (Defendant) “As we’ve given all tenancy documents to your friend, I suggest she gives you those. This will include her tenancy agreement”
    >Date Xxxx response “I’m talking with my line manager today, hopefully I should be able to respond to you by xpm XXXX”
    I am yet to receive a response. The information that I have requested is very straight forward and should not take months to gather. Despite many requests, Xxxx has not demonstrated that they have changed the terms of my tenancy agreement permitting XXXX parking to ticket my visitors.
    11. XXXX Parking has not demonstrated that they have taken the correct steps in altering my agreement even if they were permitted to do so.
    Copies of emails attached
    Along with other tenants we are at the mercy of XXXX parking who break their own rules when issuing tickets. (please see photos attached).
    This witness statement contains facts that I believe true and current
    • MrsG2711.
    • By MrsG2711. 12th Dec 17, 8:11 PM
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    MrsG2711.
    Tenants Draft Witness Statement
    Hi coupon mad
    If you find the time please may you take a look at the draft witness statement for my case. This is from the tenant, mine as the defendant is just being finalised.

    Many thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Dec 17, 8:18 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Hopefully someone else will have more time to comment further.

    But I think it should be shorter, not talking so much about permits and 'enforcement began on' because that admits the resident knew that a parking scheme was starting, which plays into the PPCs hands who can then point to 'If a parking scheme is in operation you and they must only park with a valid permit.'



    This should be the main point, at the moment it is buried:

    permits have not been distributed we do not have to display one
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MrsG2711.
    • By MrsG2711. 12th Dec 17, 8:27 PM
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    MrsG2711.
    Ok, many thanks
    Do you not think she should say that she tried to seek clarification from both housing and pc either?

    The parking circulars were passed to her from the housing, the tenant did not ever recall seeing them before
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
    • 52,914 Posts
    • 66,449 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do you not think she should say that she tried to seek clarification from both housing and pc either?
    Yes, I didn't mean scrap everything else, she should just avoid going down the road of talking about a parking scheme being introduced/knowing that permits would be needed, etc. Plays into their hands if she says 'the enforcement commenced on...'

    The parking circulars were passed to her from the housing, the tenant did not ever recall seeing them before
    That wasn't made clear to me when I read it, as the WS is too wordy. And it's important to give dates, i.e. you're saying she only saw that later, (on what date - ish) after she asked for it, and who gave it to her. And if it doesn't state £100 charge - or any charge, nor say that terms on signs now 'somehow/magically' form part of the AST - that needs to be said clearly.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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