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    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 2:46 PM
    • 8Posts
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    mkukster
    Non Fault Claim (or is it?)
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 17, 2:46 PM
    Non Fault Claim (or is it?) 13th Jul 17 at 2:46 PM
    Hi, I have just encountered a strange situation. My wife was involved in a car accident. Liability was not at question and everything was settled and paid out. However, over 15 months later, I took out a policy and declared the accident as a non-fault accident (as the website asks) but one week later got a letter from my insurance company asking for for another £200 stating that my wife had indeed had an accident and it was her fault. Confused, we contacted her insurance company at the time who indeed confirmed (by email and letter) that the accident was not her fault but that it was being left on the database as her fault because they had not yet claimed the money back from the other insurance company. I am struggling to see how any of this can be right but I am struggling to find anyone in a similar situation so I can find what the correct course of action should be.
Page 1
    • paddyandstumpy
    • By paddyandstumpy 13th Jul 17, 3:16 PM
    • 705 Posts
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    paddyandstumpy
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 3:16 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 3:16 PM
    Fault and blame are two different things.

    Your wife wasn't to blame for the accident, but unless a full recovery of costs is made by the insurer it's classed as a fault claim.

    In a similar vein a vandalism claim or storm claim wouldn't be your fault, but they are normally classed as fault claims as there is no one to recover costs from.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    • 32,102 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    Your OP says everything was settled and paid out.

    Did you lose any NCD over this? And has your excess been reimbursed?
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 4:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:46 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:46 PM
    Thanks for the reply. We have paperwork that states;


    "I can confirm that this is a non fault claim on the part of yourself. However, until we have recovered our outlay from the third party insurers this claim will show as a fault claim although we are not holding you at fault for the incident."



    It seems the only person at "fault" is the person at the insurance company who has left it 15 months to claim the money back. I guess if you take the above statement and you are on an insurance company/price comparison website filling in the details "Was this claim made against your insurance policy" or "Third Party hit you/recovery made" then you somehow have to interpret that they actually mean "has your insurance company recovered their costs".


    I suppose the one thing is hopefully I can help someone not make the same mistake. Luckily I was told about it fairly quickly. Thankfully I wasnt involved in an accident before I found out.









    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    mkukster
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    I ended up cancelling my policy. I was doing what I always do and adding my wife as a named driver. I have ended up taking out a new policy. It will be cheaper to buy her a push bike :-) than pay the extra.


    The irony is that she has taken another insurance policy and specifically asked them about this point (since we found out) and the other insurance company said that they looked into it and have noted that the accident was non-fault.


    I think it shows how open to interpretation the whole thing is. I have been in touch with the financial ombudsman and they have asked us to send a letter and they will take it up if we dont get a reply within the statuatory 8 week period





    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • 32,102 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    Get your wife to ask her insurer to confirm back to her in writing that they understand that her claim is outstanding.

    Just in case this comes back to bite

    (Did it result in any loss of Ncd? Did you get your excess reimbursed?)
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    Yep we have already asked for it. We did not lose ncd and all money was paid including the excess on the policy
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • 32,102 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    Assuming you got your excess back of the third party insurer (thereby accepting liability) then it looks like either your insurer hasn't bothered to chase for the money they had to spend on your claim (as mentioned in your OP), OR the third party is disputing the amount being claimed.


    Ask your insurer when they anticipate closing the claim and take it from their reply
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    I have tried explaining to them that we seem to being penalised for someone else not doing their job. I have probably spent over 4 hours on the phone over the last 2 days. They dont know if it is going to be another 15 months or whether they will settle at all.


    At the time the car was written off. The other party drove into the back of my wife as she sat stationary at red traffic lights. The other driver was texting her husband on the mobile. To be fair to the other party they admitted liability very early on. You hear horror stories of people changing their mind but this now seems to be a simple dispute between insurance companies.


    Hopefully a letter and the threat of the financial ombudsman after that might spur them on a bit. We actually recieved the money for the car over 13 months ago.


    Believe when I say it took my insurance company them less than a week to try and get just short of double my premium probably thinking I had tried to lie about who was at fault for the accident.


    The 3 questions I had to answer when getting a quote were ;
    What type of damage was suffered - Written-off
    Was this claim made against your policy - No
    Was the No Claims discount affected - No


    I can honestly say that even knowing what I know now I would still answer the same way.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    • 32,102 Posts
    • 16,192 Thanks
    Quentin

    The 3 questions I had to answer when getting a quote were ;
    What type of damage was suffered - Written-off
    Was this claim made against your policy - No
    Was the No Claims discount affected - No


    I can honestly say that even knowing what I know now I would still answer the same way.
    Originally posted by mkukster
    Well......that looks a wrong answer. Your posts do say you claimed off your own insurer??


    If you actually claimed off the third party as you now say, then your own insurer isn't involved in this.
    Last edited by Quentin; 13-07-2017 at 8:37 PM.
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 13th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    Not exactly sure when you say we claimed off our own insurer ? This could be where I am getting confused.


    Simply an accident took place, insurance details were exchanged and after that it was left to the insurance companies involved. We were told they had accepted liability. The car was taken away we were paid for the market value of the car and the excess ? I assume these costs were covered by the other party.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jul 17, 9:17 PM
    • 32,102 Posts
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    Quentin
    Who did you put the claim into? (Your own insurer or the insurer of the "guilty" party) ie who sent you the money, and did you have to initially pay your excess and get that paid back to you separately?
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 14th Jul 17, 10:35 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    We never dealt with the other insurer. To be honest we dont even know who the other insurance company was. We had to pay out the excess intially and it was paid back to us.


    It does seem good to talk about these things. I have trawled several websites and have now managed to find out that "your NCD is affected until the costs are recovered from the other party". So I probably was incorrect in answering question 3. However, there is still an ambiguity because all you know is that you have had your money. You would probably assume that it has all been sorted (especially after 15 months).


    Also, in my opinion (as you mentioned above) the answer to question 2 should always be Yes. In my understanding if you are declaring an accident then you always initially claim against your policy and then hope for an admission of liabililty and to then to get the money back from the other party.


    I guess what I have learnt is that it is probably best to pick up the phone when getting your insurance rather than relying on answering questions on websites. Speaking to an customer service agent yesterday this particular situation is quite a common occurence but normally happens because people are trying to cover up the fact that there has been a claim against their policy by a third party.


    What we also didnt know until yesterday was that you should get some sort of correspondence from the insurance company in the form of a letter which notifies you when the claim has been fully resolved. It will be interesting if this happens.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Jul 17, 11:48 AM
    • 32,102 Posts
    • 16,192 Thanks
    Quentin
    We had to pay out the excess intially and it was paid back to us......

    ...... in my opinion (as you mentioned above) the answer to question 2 should always be Yes. In my understanding if you are declaring an accident then you always initially claim against your policy and then hope for an admission of liabililty and to then to get the money back from the other party....
    Originally posted by mkukster

    Who did you get your excess back from?


    Regarding question 2, you should answer it truthfully - you answered incorrectly! (It isn't true that you "always" claim against your own policy (eg. You can't if you only have 3rd party cover/ when involved in an incident where liability is clear cut with the third party it is much better not to claim off your own comprehensive policy but to claim off the third party directly (avoids paying your excess/losing ncd temporarily/easier to get repairs done at your choice of repairer) which had you done would have saved you all this trouble!
    • mkukster
    • By mkukster 14th Jul 17, 1:15 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    mkukster
    I am learning a lot from this "experience". I always believed that when you have an accident you report the it to your insurers and they then deal with it. I wouldn't have even known (if I am understanding your post) that you can claim directly from the other insurers. I'll be certainly making an effort to ask more questions in the future. Fingers crossed we wont ever need to.


    For me there is no longer any point dwelling on what has happened. I have just taken out a new policy and received a much better explanation of the finer points of some of the terminology speaking to someone on the end f a phone than answering some of the questions on the website.
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