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  • FIRST POST
    • DebtMan2017
    • By DebtMan2017 13th Jul 17, 1:42 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 23Thanks
    DebtMan2017
    Is this legal ?
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:42 PM
    Is this legal ? 13th Jul 17 at 1:42 PM
    Sorry,I don;t know where to ask this,but since its a bank issue I posted in here.

    I am not staying at my address at the moment so my new bank card got sent to my branch.

    When I went to pick it up the envelope was already open.

    Is this allowed ? I'm assuming it is as the card probably belongs to them etc,but just felt it was a bit off that an envelope addressed to me was opened. Was probably staff,but could have been a dodgy postman for all i know !
Page 1
    • Money maker
    • By Money maker 13th Jul 17, 1:51 PM
    • 4,825 Posts
    • 11,004 Thanks
    Money maker
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:51 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:51 PM
    Why did you not question them at the time you collected it?
    Please do not quote spam as this enables it to 'live on' once the spam post is removed.

    If you quote me, don't forget the capital 'M'

    Declutterers of the world - unite!
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 13th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 19,526 Posts
    • 9,618 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    Is this allowed ?
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    It's allowed if you allow it. If you were concerned, you should have refused the card and requested a new one in a sealed envelope.

    Seriously, if you didn't suffer any loss, what's the problem? Your PIN would have been sent separately.
    • DebtMan2017
    • By DebtMan2017 13th Jul 17, 4:37 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DebtMan2017
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:37 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:37 PM
    It's allowed if you allow it. If you were concerned, you should have refused the card and requested a new one in a sealed envelope.

    Seriously, if you didn't suffer any loss, what's the problem? Your PIN would have been sent separately.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    Thats not the point. Would you like the postman opening every letter of yours and me saying "oh well,the letters weren't important,what's your problem? " Its the principle of it.

    This is not a debate. It's a simple query. If you don't know,don't answer. Advising me to have asked the time.... Thanks.That helps.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 13th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • 19,526 Posts
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    Moneyineptitude
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    If you don't know,don't answer.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    Post Office Act 1953:

    "Criminal diversion of letters from addressee

    (1)If any [F1person not engaged in the business of the Post Office] wilfully and maliciously, with intent to injure any other person, either opens or causes to be opened any postal packet which ought to have been delivered to that other person, or does any act or thing whereby the due delivery of the packet to that other person is prevented or impeded, he shall be [F2liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both]"

    So it's only illegal if the letter is opened with "criminal intent"

    Your problem would be proving who actually opened the letter (and why). Banks use their own internal mail for such post between departments or branches, so I doubt any Post Office worker was involved.

    As I said, you've suffered no loss and I expect it's too late now for you to do anything about it. You could complain to the Bank I suppose.
    Last edited by Moneyineptitude; 13-07-2017 at 5:02 PM.
    • takman
    • By takman 13th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • 2,705 Posts
    • 2,249 Thanks
    takman
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    Sorry,I don;t know where to ask this,but since its a bank issue I posted in here.

    I am not staying at my address at the moment so my new bank card got sent to my branch.

    When I went to pick it up the envelope was already open.

    Is this allowed ? I'm assuming it is as the card probably belongs to them etc,but just felt it was a bit off that an envelope addressed to me was opened. Was probably staff,but could have been a dodgy postman for all i know !
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    I doubt it was a postman because the bank staff would have to be pretty silly to give you a new card that had already been handled by an unknown third party.

    They may open all envelopes that come to them to make sure it wasn't incorrectly addressed and needed the attention of the staff. Maybe they have to log receiving the cards as they arrive in branch for security purposes or maybe to activate the card.

    It's a simple query. If you don't know,don't answer.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    Your right it is a simple query and should have been asked when you picked up the envelope if you were concerned.

    Regarding the legal side of things Moneyineptitude has covered that fully for you.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 13th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    • 15,113 Posts
    • 21,453 Thanks
    antrobus
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    Thats not the point. Would you like the postman opening every letter of yours and me saying "oh well,the letters weren't important,what's your problem? " Its the principle of it....
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    Postal Services Act 2000 s84

    A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him.

    So, as long as you don't act with the intention of causing someone detriment you commit no offence.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/84

    ...This is not a debate. It's a simple query. If you don't know,don't answer. Advising me to have asked the time.... Thanks.That helps.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    This is an open forum. People can do what they like.

    In any case, I don't know what arrangements your bank use for internal mail. The PSA 2000 may not apply, in which case they can really do what they like.

    In any event, no crime was committed, so it was legal.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 13th Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    • 55,530 Posts
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    Thrugelmir
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    By asking for the envelope to be sent to your branch then the bank became responsible for the contents.
    "Wide diversification is only required when investors do not understand what they are doing." - Warren Buffett
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 13th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 15,113 Posts
    • 21,453 Thanks
    antrobus
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    Post Office Act 1953: "
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    No longer valid. Section repealed by PSA 2000.
    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 13th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 581 Thanks
    nic_c
    Thats not the point. Would you like the postman opening every letter of yours and me saying "oh well,the letters weren't important,what's your problem? " Its the principle of it.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    So why did you not question it at the time? Why have you not gone back to the bank and queried? Was the envelope unsealed or previously sealed and obviously opened?

    If it's a case it only occurred to you afterwards, then you really need to go back to the bank and challenge it. Maybe it's normal practice and they log numbers to ensure cards have been received. Simply asking on a public forum seems daft
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 13th Jul 17, 5:22 PM
    • 19,526 Posts
    • 9,618 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    No longer valid. Section repealed by PSA 2000.
    Originally posted by antrobus
    Replaced with broadly similar terms though
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 13th Jul 17, 8:20 PM
    • 24,081 Posts
    • 11,368 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    A card ordered by a bank to be sent to a branch will probably be sent by internal post and has not been near a postman.
    I would imagine that the envelope would have been opened by staff so that they could log it somewhere and confirm that it had been collected.

    If this is not to the OP 's liking then he should get his address changed and get the card sent there.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • DebtMan2017
    • By DebtMan2017 13th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DebtMan2017
    A card ordered by a bank to be sent to a branch will probably be sent by internal post and has not been near a postman.
    I would imagine that the envelope would have been opened by staff so that they could log it somewhere and confirm that it had been collected.

    If this is not to the OP 's liking then he should get his address changed and get the card sent there.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    They wouldnt change my address,hense it was their decision to sent it to branch.

    Turns out the staff member has since been charged with a fraud not related to my case and expected to get 7-10 years.
    • ceredigion
    • By ceredigion 13th Jul 17, 9:18 PM
    • 2,328 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    ceredigion
    They wouldnt change my address,hense it was their decision to sent it to branch.

    Turns out the staff member has since been charged with a fraud not related to my case and expected to get 7-10 years.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017

    Also turns out a lot of things you read on the internet are complete bunkum.
    • dggar
    • By dggar 13th Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    • 546 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    dggar
    They wouldnt change my address,hense it was their decision to sent it to branch.

    Turns out the staff member has since been charged with a fraud not related to my case and expected to get 7-10 years.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017


    Surely there needs to be a conviction of fraud before you can speculate on what the sentence would be.


    How did you find out that the staff member has been charged with fraud.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 13th Jul 17, 9:22 PM
    • 1,057 Posts
    • 669 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    My first company had a policy by which you could arrange for personal mail to be sent to you at work ; but they opened everything to make sure it wasn't illegal.

    The OP doesn't say if the opened envelope had been through the Royal Mail or not ; but as it is the bank's property, they can do what they like with it. If they thought they were doing anything wrong, the branch staff could have easily sealed it into an internal envelope.
    • ceredigion
    • By ceredigion 13th Jul 17, 9:31 PM
    • 2,328 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    ceredigion
    I'm curious to know which bank it was? reading the OP's post history surprised they could get an account at all
    • DebtMan2017
    • By DebtMan2017 13th Jul 17, 9:45 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DebtMan2017
    i'm curious to know which bank it was? Reading the op's post history surprised they could get an account at all
    Originally posted by ceredigion
    reported ....
    • d123
    • By d123 13th Jul 17, 9:56 PM
    • 6,609 Posts
    • 4,237 Thanks
    d123
    They wouldnt change my address,hense it was their decision to sent it to branch.

    Turns out the staff member has since been charged with a fraud not related to my case and expected to get 7-10 years.
    Originally posted by DebtMan2017
    Are you just making things up for the hell of it now?

    At 1:42pm you made post #1 and by 9:02pm the staff member had been arrested, charged and given a likely prison sentence?

    That's unbelievably, miraculously, quick for the justice system (and you having superhuman powers to find information that wouldn't be in the public domain) or you are just telling porkies.

    I wonder which is more likely...
    ====
    • DebtMan2017
    • By DebtMan2017 13th Jul 17, 10:05 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    DebtMan2017
    Are you just making things up for the hell of it now?

    At 1:42pm you made post #1 and by 9:02pm the staff member had been arrested, charged and given a likely prison sentence?

    That's unbelievably, miraculously, quick for the justice system (and you having superhuman powers to find information that wouldn't be in the public domain) or you are just telling porkies.

    I wonder which is more likely...
    Originally posted by d123
    Because I made the post at 1.42pm today doesnt mean the envelope incident happened today.
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