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  • FIRST POST
    • EasyPeasy223
    • By EasyPeasy223 13th Jul 17, 12:14 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    EasyPeasy223
    Cloned Car + CPM Parking Fine
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:14 PM
    Cloned Car + CPM Parking Fine 13th Jul 17 at 12:14 PM
    Good afternoon MSE,

    Today our company has received a "Formal Demand" PCN for what appears to be my car. Going on to the payment website, it shows more pictures in higher quality than what was printed and sent to us. However, upon reviewing the authenticity of the pictures, there are features inside and outside of the car that do not match my own. For example, my residents parking permit is nowhere to be seen, my TomTom cradle does not seem to appear, there is a "Jelly-Baby" logo hanging from the rear-view mirror (I hate jelly baby's), the wing-mirrors are a silver colour (mine are identical to the colour of the car) and there is an 'S3' badge on the front grill which is the incorrect car model and does not appear on my grill. Lastly, I would never have gone to the place I was allegedly fined. The pictures also show a ticket on the windscreen which I have no recollection of seeing or receiving.

    Now i've done some reading about CPM anyway and as this car is a Company Lease I was just about to lodge an appeal. But after finding these inconsinstencies, I am now thinking about going to the police and lodging a complaint. Would I be better telling my hire company about this or the police first? And when and how should I write to the CPM company about this issue?

    Many thanks in advance,
    EasyPeasy.
Page 1
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 13th Jul 17, 12:17 PM
    • 5,993 Posts
    • 5,445 Thanks
    Herzlos
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:17 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:17 PM
    It's more likely to be an ANPR misread - can you see the plate clearly in the pictures?

    If you can't, then report it to the police, and appeal to CPM saying something like "Not my car. Continuing to harass me is a breach of the DPA"
    • EasyPeasy223
    • By EasyPeasy223 13th Jul 17, 12:20 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    EasyPeasy223
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:20 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:20 PM
    It's a photograph taken by an enforcement officer (there are before and after pics of the windscreen before ticket placement and after), the numberplate and visual contents of the interior are also visible.

    The numberplate reads my registration, clearly, but it is also missing the blue "GB" to the left of the plate. It has 100% been cloned. Other features of the car are correct, such as the alloy wheel type and bodypaint. However the inconsitencies pointed out in the OP prove plainly to me this is simply not my car...
    Last edited by EasyPeasy223; 13-07-2017 at 12:24 PM.
    • nyermen
    • By nyermen 13th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
    • 129 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    nyermen
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
    Surprised they've not removed the S3 badge, it makes it obvious it's not your car (Older S3's have a twin exhaust, newer ones have double twin exhausts, so take a photo of yours for proof it's not the same car - much more convincing than jellybeans).

    Please check the process, but I understand you should write to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and they will record your correspondence on the vehicle record for future reference, and also contact the police. Its for the police to trace and prosecute the culprit.
    Peter

    Debt free - finally finished paying off £20k + Interest.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,185 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    I have helped someone kill off a 'cloned car' private parking case before, where she was actually dragged to a court claim and nearly lost...had the case adjourned, then knocked it into the middle of next week when coached on what to say to the Judge on the re-hearing.

    Things to do now:

    - report it to the Police. Insist on an Incident number. You will not get a Crime Number, because there is no crime against you/the company.

    - Use that Incident Number in your response to CPM, and also:

    - send an email to David Dunford of the DVLA* (ending with your company name/your position (because the registered keeper is presumably the company?) telling him that this is a cloned car case. Either that, or UKCPM's camera has not correctly shown the VRN. As such, they were not entitled to get the company's data as registered keeper and this is a formal complaint that the data was provided by the DVLA without 'reasonable cause'.

    - contact the IPC on their website, and tell them that you have also complained to David Dunford and expect UKCPM to cancel the charge immediately and note their system in case the cloned car visits the same car park in future, that this is NOT the vehicle owned by xxxxxx (your company).

    In each complaint, set out clearly all the differences and give the Police incident number. If any party says you need to go back and get a crime number, bite their head off, put some salt on it and eat it!**



    *Search the forum for 'Dunford email'.

    **joking! But a crime number is NEVER issued for a cloned numberplate, not to the person with the original car.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-07-2017 at 1:42 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • EasyPeasy223
    • By EasyPeasy223 13th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    EasyPeasy223
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    Thank you all for your speedy replies.

    Coupon-mad, why is it they don't issue a CRN in this case? If the criminal(s) had performed a more serious offence, it would have been a hard-stop or a boot through my front door - I believe it's also a £1,000 fine for falsifying numberplates - and if an agency is going to request a criminal reference from the Police instead of an incident number, then why does the agency ask for it or the police not give a CRN? The potential for this matter to evolve into something horrible is quite likely, there are many uses for a cloned car and plate, I can't imagine they went through the trouble to get away with one parking ticket.

    For me, it's like someone has made an identical copy of my passport and they've been caught using it at a post office but plan to use it to cross the boarder.
    Last edited by EasyPeasy223; 13-07-2017 at 1:54 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 17, 4:06 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,185 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:06 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:06 PM
    As I understand it, because it's not a crime against you.

    A crime would occur (again, but not against you) if the cloned car mowed down and killed someone, or was involved in a robbery. Just the fact you are alleging there is a cloned car ''out there'' is an incident and should then be shared (I think) by the Police with the DVLA, on their databases, but that's all.

    Why not ask the Police to explain, when you report it and get your Incident Number?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 13th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • 1,708 Posts
    • 3,109 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    Cloning goes to the CIO at the DVLA (cio.vehicles@dvla.gsi.gov.uk). Report it and ask for it to be noted against your VRM.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 13th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    • 142 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    Ryandavis1959
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    This happened to me a few years back although I was issued a speeding ticket by post. Not a parking ticket.

    The way I dealt with it is by phoning the police, at first they were difficult as I am sure they thought I was trying it on but I attended my local station and got more assistance.

    The police then spoke to the DVLA for me and I never had any further issues (helped that my car at the time had a tracking device to prove it was 420 miles away on the day in question).
    • hoohoo
    • By hoohoo 13th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • 1,675 Posts
    • 3,108 Thanks
    hoohoo
    When you go to the police, take photos of the cloned car and your car so you can point out the differences
    Dedicated to driving up standards in parking
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