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  • FIRST POST
    • AG47
    • By AG47 13th Jul 17, 11:48 AM
    • 610Posts
    • 143Thanks
    AG47
    TV licence ran out, not going to renew
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:48 AM
    TV licence ran out, not going to renew 13th Jul 17 at 11:48 AM
    We only watch internet stuff that does NOT require a licence.

    What is the best way to let them know so they stop bugging me, I'm getting some seriously irritating letters.

    How can I stop the harassment?
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 13-07-2017 at 6:17 PM. Reason: Corrected title
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
Page 1
    • AG47
    • By AG47 13th Jul 17, 11:49 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    AG47
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:49 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:49 AM
    I have an Amazon fire stick, and I know you can watch things that require a to licence, but we do not.

    I only watch films and other things that do not require a tv licence.

    How can I tell them, what is the best way and the best wording.

    Are there any sample letters?
    Last edited by AG47; 13-07-2017 at 11:55 AM.
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • AG47
    • By AG47 13th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    AG47
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    I actually feel so discussed by the pedophile ring that was covered up for so long in the BBC that I want nothing to do with them,

    I seriously want them to stop bugging me with harassment, as I have informed them already that we do not require a to licence
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • Buzby
    • By Buzby 13th Jul 17, 12:29 PM
    • 8,110 Posts
    • 2,974 Thanks
    Buzby
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:29 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:29 PM
    Once they accept your declaration that's the end of the hate mail for 2 years, until it starts again.
    • Marvqn1
    • By Marvqn1 13th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    • 345 Posts
    • 222 Thanks
    Marvqn1
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    I actually feel so discussed by the pedophile ring that was covered up for so long in the BBC that I want nothing to do with them,

    I seriously want them to stop bugging me with harassment, as I have informed them already that we do not require a to licence
    Originally posted by AG47
    If that was really true, don't you think millions of people would be cancelling in their droves?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 13th Jul 17, 6:19 PM
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    Cornucopia
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 6:19 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 6:19 PM
    If that was really true, don't you think millions of people would be cancelling in their droves?
    Originally posted by Marvqn1
    I finally cancelled my Licence in the wake of the Newsnight scandal over Savile, so yes, people are/were concerned enough to take action.

    At the same time, though, the number of households has increased so the BBC is no worse off - according to its own figures.

    What part of the OP's post(s) is it that you doubt the truth of?

    I seriously want them to stop bugging me with harassment, as I have informed them already that we do not require a to licence
    Originally posted by AG47
    There is no "silver bullet" for TV Licensing. The two most common responses are to completely ignore them or to give their "declaration" of having no TV reception. Both of those are quite effective, depending on what you class as harassment. In the latter case, they say that they may still "call to check", but you can turn them away irrespective of having made their "declaration". (I say "declaration" because it has no legal status - it is purely an administrative step).

    Personally, I have used various legal strategies and found them to be effective, but using them without fully understanding them can be dangerous. Of the possible strategies, the least risky/zero risk ones are (a) to formally complain about TVL's policies to the BBC - this tends to ward them off for at least 2 years, and (b) invoking PACE rights in advance - in my case this led to them unilaterally banning themselves from my address for 2 years (I need to check this, as I think it may soon expire).
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 13-07-2017 at 6:33 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • AG47
    • By AG47 14th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    AG47
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
    If that was really true, don't you think millions of people would be cancelling in their droves?
    Originally posted by Marvqn1
    So you think it's all lies about the pedos

    You think the courts got it wrong and those in prison are all innocent?

    I have to politely disagree with you on that one
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • AG47
    • By AG47 14th Jul 17, 11:00 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    AG47
    • #8
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:00 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:00 AM
    How can you make that declaration? I have written to them declaring I'm not interested in services that I need a licence for, and I asked them to confirm this declaration but I still get the computer generated letters
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 14th Jul 17, 11:08 AM
    • 9,272 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    • #9
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:08 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Jul 17, 11:08 AM
    I think the Public's reaction to the child abuse scandal is complicated, and includes:-

    - An element of "benefit of the doubt" or "suspension of belief" regarding BBC management knowledge and involvement at the time of the offences, and a sense that the problem is solely historic (even though Dame Janet Smith's inquiry said that the present-day BBC could still harbour child abusers). OTOH, there is reassurance from the living offenders being progressively dealt with by the Authorities, so justice in those cases is being done.

    - An element of apathy - not being willing to sacrifice live TV, or even not being willing to find out how to be legally Licence-free. (Just assuming that a TV Licence is to own a TV, when it's actually for TV reception).

    - An element of fear of TV Licensing, whose fake authority seems to be thoroughly a part of the Briitsh psyche.

    - Lack of principles - I don't mean that in a nasty way, but few people seem to be willing/able to take a stand even when they passionately disagree with something.


    Personally, I think catch-up is fantastic, and when I go to friends/family who still watch linear TV, it is a very strange sensation to be limited to what the Broadcasters see fit to schedule at that particular time. I also like that (as a general rule) there are fewer ads on the catch-up services compared to live. Whether that will continue (as viewer numbers increase) remains to be seen.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 14-07-2017 at 11:15 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 14th Jul 17, 4:21 PM
    • 2,922 Posts
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    Xbigman
    But the illegal activities within the BBC are not sanctioned by the BBC and it was ultimately individuals that committed the offences.

    I was undecided about ditching live TV when my TV licence ended at the end of June but it was the left wing bias of the BBC, the gleeful knifing of Theresa May/commiserating with Labour on election night and the Martin McGuinness Funeral coverage that finally caused me to decide. And those are all sanctioned by the BBC.
    But if I hadn't already been thinking about it the above would not have been enough on its own.

    I already received my licence by email so they already have my email address and name and you don't need to fill out the telephone number field so I made the online declaration. Automated receipt reply within hours and a email the next day that I am on their database as 'no licence required'. All very painless so far. Only time will tell if they really do leave me alone as promised.


    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 14th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
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    Cornucopia
    But the illegal activities within the BBC are not sanctioned by the BBC and it was ultimately individuals that committed the offences.
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    I would say it was somewhat more nuanced than that. Yes, I agree that any organisation, especially one of the sheer size of the BBC is likely to have its fair share of criminals of one sort or another.

    However, in the case of the child abusers, the BBC always had a duty of care towards its child guests and audience members, and although attitudes towards sexual abuse of adults have undoubtedly changed over time, I don't think that is true in the case of children. If I/my parents had even suspected Jimmy Savile or Rolf Harris at the time when they were being presented as wholesome family entertainment, we would have been horrified.

    Also, I seem to recall that Nick Pollard (who led the inquiry into the Newsnight handling of the Savile scandal) is on record as saying that the level of cooperation he received from BBC Management was not as good as it should have been. (Which in the usually guarded language of such things is fairly damning).

    In the case of the misdemeanours of TV Licensing, they are a matter in many cases of public record, either because they are documented in videos or because they have been formally reported to the BBC (who have generally done nothing). Unfortunately, their governance model is engineered for broadcasting, not law enforcement so actually getting these things resolved is, in the final analysis, proving extremely difficult. On which basis, I would advise anyone dealing with them to exercise extreme caution (depending on the circumstances).

    Only time will tell if they really do leave me alone as promised.
    Where/when did they promise to leave you alone? AFAICT that's not what they say at all.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 14-07-2017 at 5:08 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 14th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    Tom99
    You just advise them online then they will send you a notice saying they will not contact you for two years.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 14th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 9,272 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    Unfortunately, that's not what they say. (Whether they actually do what they say is another question entirely).


    TV Licensing reserves the right to visit addresses which have claimed No Licence Needed. This is because, although the majority of No Licence Needed claims received by TV Licensing are genuine, latest figures show that almost one in six such
    by TV Licensing
    After an individual has made a No Licence Needed claim to TV Licensing, written acknowledgement and an explanation of the NLC process will be sent to the individual. The address will be given NLC status, mailings to the address will cease for a specified period of time and the premises will become available for visiting in order to confirm that a licence is not needed.
    TV Licensing will visit a sample of NLC addresses to confirm that a licence is not needed.
    NLC = No Licence Needed "Claim".

    In reality, there is no legal meaning behind these claims/declarations of "no Licence needed" or TVL's demands for or receipt of such a claim. It is simply an administrative activity that individual citizens can choose to participate in ...or not (though you won't generally see this stated in BBC/TVL documentation).

    I appreciate that enforcing an offence that takes place inside people's homes is fundamentally difficult, but it also requires fundamental sensitivity. The abuse of law and language that BBC/TVL uses is simply not an appropriate starting point for this task, nor indeed any task in which a public authority engages with its Public.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 14-07-2017 at 5:27 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 15th Jul 17, 6:21 AM
    • 2,922 Posts
    • 1,180 Thanks
    Xbigman
    They reserve the right to visit me but will otherwise not contact me by email, phone or letter. Thats my definition of leaving me alone.



    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 15th Jul 17, 8:47 AM
    • 9,272 Posts
    • 8,769 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    They reserve the right to visit me but will otherwise not contact me by email, phone or letter. Thats my definition of leaving me alone.
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Okay - let's hope that they do.

    From my POV, though, they are simply agreeing not to do something that they shouldn't ever have been doing in the first place. It's something of a disingenuous and manipulative gesture on their part.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 15-07-2017 at 8:52 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • AG47
    • By AG47 19th Jul 17, 7:06 AM
    • 610 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    AG47
    I e written to inform them

    No reply yet, I asked for written confirmation
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • HWW
    • By HWW 22nd Jul 17, 7:38 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    HWW
    I have not contact TVL at all in this century, last told them in 1994 "No licence needed" Monthly computer junk mail from them kept coming though, so that was a waste of time - so let them waste Money on sending me junk post that goes in the bin, unopened!


    Last attempted visit, was around 2005 - I think after a while, unless the Land registry shows a change of property ownership (or changes on other open property databases, are noticed) TVL stops visits by Goons, to a property that is a "Black hole" as far as they are concerned - to save man-power. It works for me & quite a few others.


    I say this, because once a new home is sold (& No TVL is taken out - or even just a change of ownership) I am told that the threatening letters soon start coming - so these databases are obviously monitored.


    Capita are a nosy lot, but they are also pretty lazy as well - they catch enough single mums without a TVL, to make it look as if they are doing their job & justify the huge charges they levy out of the BBC - the rest is smoke & mirrors - for example, the local newspaper articles along the lines of: "400 people in Derby still claim to watch B&W TV" - Those 400 of course pay less for a B&W licence, which stops the threatogrames - but Capita are Greedy, & believe some of those 400 actually watch colour TV.
    It is their only way to do a bit of harassment in that case!
    • mickthemikeman
    • By mickthemikeman 23rd Jul 17, 10:19 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mickthemikeman
    invoking PACE rights in advance
    Have you got a template letter for that Cornicopia
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 23rd Jul 17, 3:10 PM
    • 9,272 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    Have you got a template letter for that Cornicopia
    Originally posted by mickthemikeman
    Something like this:-

    Dear TVL,

    You have recently written to this address stating that you intend to visit and if you find evidence of TV Licence evasion you intend to Interview (someone) under Caution.

    You have stated that this interview will be PACE-compliant and I therefore wish to ensure that both parties are clear as to what this means. I would also like to clearly and unambiguously indicate my full awareness of my rights and state my intention to use them.

    In short:-

    - I decline to be interviewed using a part-completed paper form (TVL178) since this does not meet the basic criteria for a confession statement and it is not proof against tampering.

    - In the event that any allegations are made by your staff I will also want to exercise my right to legal counsel.

    - Furthermore, I understand my right to silence and to decline to be interviewed entirely and shall apply these rights at my sole discretion.

    Please can you confirm that you have received and understood my letter, and that you warrant that any member of staff sent to my premises will be fully apprised of its contents and the wider principles of PACE.

    For and on behalf of all adult residents of this address.

    Yours...
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 23-07-2017 at 3:35 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • mickthemikeman
    • By mickthemikeman 24th Jul 17, 12:53 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mickthemikeman
    Thank you Cornucopia
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