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  • FIRST POST
    • username678
    • By username678 12th Jul 17, 8:42 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 7Thanks
    username678
    Train journey including underground
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:42 PM
    Train journey including underground 12th Jul 17 at 8:42 PM
    This may be a stupid question so apologies in advance.
    I am making a train journey soon as follows:

    Train Station A to Train Station B
    Train Station B's London Underground to Train Station C's London Underground
    Train Station C to Train Station D

    Will my ticket from Train Station A to Train Station D cover the underground? Do I have to buy a separate ticket for that? Will the machine eat my ticket leaving me to buy a new one anyway? Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 12th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    • 18,721 Posts
    • 14,425 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    I think if you buy an A to D ticket it should cover travel between B and C. However, it's unlikely to be the best value option, espcially if A to B and C to D journeys are with separate TOCs. I'd check out the cost of individual tickets for each leg of the journey, plus the underground cost (which you can pay for on the day with a contactless card or mobile phone payment for the lowest cost, if you have either of these)
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 12th Jul 17, 8:51 PM
    • 18,651 Posts
    • 15,554 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:51 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:51 PM
    This may be a stupid question so apologies in advance.
    I am making a train journey soon as follows:

    Train Station A to Train Station B
    Train Station B's London Underground to Train Station C's London Underground
    Train Station C to Train Station D

    Will my ticket from Train Station A to Train Station D cover the underground? Do I have to buy a separate ticket for that? Will the machine eat my ticket leaving me to buy a new one anyway? Thanks in advance!
    Originally posted by username678
    Why the secrecy?

    Go on, be brave. Take the risk and tell us where you are travelling from and to.

    The answer to your first question is: possibly, it may depend on the ticket you buy.

    The answer to the second question depends on whether the answer to the first question turns out to be 'yes' or 'no'.

    The answer to the third question is: possible but unlikely.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 16th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    • 10,953 Posts
    • 20,391 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    I had similar query the other day (in fact when I initially saw it I thought admin might have stolen it for a thread..lol)... albeit on cost... so I agree with the above posts... if you need a transfer in London that'll be included (but check - it should be shown in itinerary) if you buy the journey A to D (which requires A to B and C to D trains) rather than separating the tickets...and the tickets will be marked with a symbol to show can use underground for connection... but you may find buying the individual tickets for A to B and C to D and then using Oyster or equivalent much cheaper. As example I'm looking at Newcastle to Cornwall... it mirrors the journey you are suggesting and is charged at, as example, £66.50 if bought with underground transfer included... yet the individual tickets for A to B and C to D are as little as only £20 and £22.50 respectively meaning you're in effect paying as much as £24!!!! for what otherwise could be a £2.40 Oyster or contactless journey on underground. Seems like madness to me. But then as a train amateur I also had to point out yesterday that CrossCountry were apparently selling tickets for a train that doesn't exist.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 16-07-2017 at 3:04 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Cygnus Alpha
    • By Cygnus Alpha 17th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    • 190 Posts
    • 311 Thanks
    Cygnus Alpha
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    This may be a stupid question so apologies in advance.
    I am making a train journey soon as follows:

    Train Station A to Train Station B
    Train Station B's London Underground to Train Station C's London Underground
    Train Station C to Train Station D

    Will my ticket from Train Station A to Train Station D cover the underground? Do I have to buy a separate ticket for that? Will the machine eat my ticket leaving me to buy a new one anyway? Thanks in advance!
    Originally posted by username678
    Yes.
    No.
    No. If it does, ask the gateline operator to retrieve it.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 17th Jul 17, 10:28 PM
    • 7,589 Posts
    • 8,129 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 17, 10:28 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 17, 10:28 PM
    If your ticket is marked with the maltese cross (dagger) symbol it will include cross-London travel on the Underground.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 17th Jul 17, 10:35 PM
    • 4,291 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    jack_pott
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 17, 10:35 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 17, 10:35 PM
    Almost every train journey I make involves crossing London on the tube, and I've never yet had a ticket that doesn't include it in the price.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 17th Jul 17, 11:39 PM
    • 10,953 Posts
    • 20,391 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:39 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 17, 11:39 PM
    Almost every train journey I make involves crossing London on the tube, and I've never yet had a ticket that doesn't include it in the price.
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    Have you ever looked at the prices if you bought the tickets without the tube... because I am staggered at the savings I can get Newcastle to London then London to Cornwall. If you get the first leg for £20 (which is definitely possible early booking) and the second leg typically £22.50... they charge £66.50 for the whole journey including the tube connection... i.e. the most expensive part of this trip seemingly becomes the almost negligible distance between two walkable (for me) tube stations. I should say that if the first leg goes up to £28 and I think £36 then still £66.50 is charged.. but still that's a lot more for the tube than by Oyster. I can't believe that I arranged my wife's train travel on the continent after research lasting around 30 minutes... I've been on weeks trying to understand the British railways for this trip it seems.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 17-07-2017 at 11:42 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 18th Jul 17, 1:13 AM
    • 4,291 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    jack_pott
    • #9
    • 18th Jul 17, 1:13 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Jul 17, 1:13 AM
    So is that saving because you booked early or because you split the ticket? Whenever I've tried looking for split tickets I've lost the will to live before I found any savings.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 18th Jul 17, 3:01 AM
    • 10,953 Posts
    • 20,391 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    So is that saving because you booked early or because you split the ticket? Whenever I've tried looking for split tickets I've lost the will to live before I found any savings.
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    Well a bit of both probably...the good prices for the individual train legs is because of early booking... especially the first one as it is a popular route Newcastle to London. Not sure if it is technically ticket splitting (if my understanding of that is correct... and it may not be) in my example.... as you'd in effect be buying the same tickets except the inclusion of the underground transfer which instead you'd have to alternatively arrange... Oyster at £2.40 in this case. So I've found that inclusion of the underground element in the train booking to be of highly variable effective charge albeit probably consequentially of other complexities of how they charge for journeys. I've also found general ticket splitting of limited value... but probably because of early booking so lowest prices for splitters to compete with. Splitters I've tried do not pick up on the underground element issue yet it could bring huge savings.... approx. a third for the tickets I'll be buying. I asked in another thread if I was missing something from my consideration... nothing was suggested... so £2.40 instead of £24 it is.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 18-07-2017 at 3:08 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 18th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    • 4,291 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    jack_pott
    I can't find anywhere on the website that enables you to specify whether you want the tube included. For a trip from here (Essex) to Bath, if I buy separate tickets for either side of London it's £57.30 instead of £65.80 if I leave at 09:00, or £47.50 instead of £30.50 if I leave at 11:00.

    The problem with looking for cheap fares is that there are so many permutations you just lose the will to live trying them all.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 18th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • 10,953 Posts
    • 20,391 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    I can't find anywhere on the website that enables you to specify whether you want the tube included. For a trip from here (Essex) to Bath, if I buy separate tickets for either side of London it's £57.30 instead of £65.80 if I leave at 09:00, or £47.50 instead of £30.50 if I leave at 11:00.

    The problem with looking for cheap fares is that there are so many permutations you just lose the will to live trying them all.
    Originally posted by jack_pott
    lol.. yes the websites don't seem to enable you to remove the tube connection .. you'd need to buy the tickets to and from London separately. It sounds like you've discovered similar wild fluctuations in effective cost of the leg.

    I must admit in looking at all the permutations for public transport Newcastle to Cornwall I've concluded as a life long hater of roads and cars that it poses the most sense (it's even the quickest with flights ruled out due to the crazy hour of arrival around 11pm Newcastle to Exeter and Newquay only services from Newcastle for summer months)... especially if booking as a small group where that adds even more confusion as my research reveals today. Virgin train east coast as it appears have a weaker 25% off for 3-9 travelling together yet Great Western a third off... but if I try this journey I have in mind I get the 25% discount from virgin if I book direct but the Great Western group booking amount is much more than 4 single tickets at full price if I try to book with them direct. I am losing the will to live. I could walk down there in 6 or 7 days and probably get better wifi than Virgin trains east coast en route.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 18-07-2017 at 4:59 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 18th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 9,511 Posts
    • 9,103 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    I don't think that the reality of it is that the Tube "part" of the ticket really is £20 or whatever. What is happening is that the two National Rail components are separately subject to advance pricing and competition that you do not get full access to if you book all the way through - it is the same concept as split ticketing.

    It's not always more expensive. From down here on the wrong end of HS1, it's almost always cheaper to book a through ticket than to book Kent-St Pancras and then London-Wherever. In fact the ticketing is positively stupid in some cases:-

    Gillingham(Kent) - Birmingham, best advance fare = £22 (2 singles, booked through including HS1 & Tube).

    Gillingham - St Pancras, best fare = £17.40 (2 singles) or £20.30 return.

    So Brum for £4.60 return. Nice.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 19-07-2017 at 1:06 PM.
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    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 19th Jul 17, 1:03 PM
    • 4,291 Posts
    • 5,511 Thanks
    jack_pott
    Public transport rules are so arcane it's easy to spend several times longer researching a route than it takes to travel it.

    What does any permitted route mean? Answer: any route that's "reasonable".
    What's the difference between Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak? Answer: "Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets may require you to travel at specific times of day"

    The more confusing the system is, the more you can make out of fining people.
    Last edited by jack_pott; 19-07-2017 at 1:09 PM.
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