Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • M.Wood
    • By M.Wood 12th Jul 17, 7:38 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    M.Wood
    Wren Kitchens - Possible Fraud?
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:38 PM
    Wren Kitchens - Possible Fraud? 12th Jul 17 at 7:38 PM
    Hi, I have an issue regarding Wren Kitchens and would like some advice on resolution.

    I purchased a circa £10,000 kitchen from Wren which was delivered on 26th May 2017. There were several issues with the parts provided, specifically; all worktops had serious manufacturing faults, and an incorrect cupboard door was provided. I understand that problems such as these can arise therefore I contacted Customer Services. After providing photographic proof of these issues Wren supplied replacements.
    The significant issue I have now encountered is regarding the supplied handles. The installation had been completed by my kitchen fitter and I noticed the handles that had been supplied were incorrect. I immediately contacted Wren & informed them of their mistake and asked for them to send the handles that I had specified and paid for as per our contract. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was outwith the allocated '28 days' time limit and that I would have to buy a new set of handles for circa £200!
    I am incredulous that a large company such as Wren Kitchens who must spend a considerable amount of time and money on their public perception would make a decsion such as this. Which in effect will turn a happy customer into a justifiabily aggrieved party.
    In regards to the law and their '28 day' time limit, surely this part of the contract does not outweigh the core of the contract which is that they must supply me with the items chosen and paid for. Their logic would state that if they supplied me with an empty box for £10,000 and I didn't contact them within 28 days, they would be within their rights! Surely this is incorrect and this behaviour/decision is essentially fraud?
    Any advice regarding my legal position and possible routes to resolution would be greatfully recieved.
Page 1
    • meer53
    • By meer53 12th Jul 17, 7:41 PM
    • 8,772 Posts
    • 12,742 Thanks
    meer53
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:41 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:41 PM
    What do their terms and conditions say about checking you have the correct goods on delivery ? I think you'll find it says that you have to notify them within a certain timeframe, which you are now past.

    Where does fraud come into it ?
    Last edited by meer53; 12-07-2017 at 7:49 PM.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jul 17, 7:48 PM
    • 4,560 Posts
    • 9,181 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:48 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:48 PM
    Mistakes do happen. It's one of those things.

    You knew a cupboard door was wrong and some work tops were substandard. Did that not make you think 'better check the rest of this, just in case!'

    Plus you didn't even noticed until all the handles had been finished? Am I guessing correctly?
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • 733 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    Read your contract, having read it if you can find in any way Wren have been dishonest or made a false representation then think about fraud. Until you have evidence of that there's no fraud.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Jul 17, 8:28 PM
    • 10,976 Posts
    • 8,232 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:28 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 8:28 PM
    What do their terms and conditions say about checking you have the correct goods on delivery ? I think you'll find it says that you have to notify them within a certain timeframe, which you are now past.

    Where does fraud come into it ?
    Originally posted by meer53
    Being in the T&C's does not necessarily mean you're stuck with it. Especially if those T&C's are contrary to the position of law.

    2(d): Time limits on claims
    5.7.1. If a contract is to be considered balanced, each party’s rights must remain
    enforceable against the other for as long as is reasonably necessary, as well as being adequate in other respects. The general law allows a period
    of six years (five years in Scotland) for making claims for breach of
    contract91 where the parties have not agreed a definite period between
    themselves, and this may be regarded as the benchmark of fairness.


    5.7.3 Prompt notification of complaints is desirable because it encourages
    successful resolution and is therefore to be encouraged. But taking away
    all rights to redress is liable to be considered an over-severe sanction for
    this purpose.

    5.7.4 Where the consumer’s statutory rights are at issue,92 any fault found in
    goods or digital content (which is paid for either directly or indirectly) within
    six months of the date of sale is generally assumed to be the business’s
    responsibility unless it can prove otherwise. It is therefore particularly unfair
    and misleading for terms to seek to exclude or limit the consumer’s right to
    redress for faulty goods or digital content during the first six months after
    purchase. As noted above (in part 1 ‘other legislation’ on the CPRs) the use
    of misleading terms may give rise to enforcement action as an unfair
    commercial practice.

    5.7.6 There is similarly likely to be no objection to wording that encourages
    consumers to check to the best of their ability for any defects or
    discrepancies at the earliest opportunity, and take prompt action as soon
    as they become aware of any problem. Concerns do not arise so long as
    there is no suggestion that the trader disclaims liability for problems which
    consumers fail to notice.
    OP go back to them and inform them that they are in breach of contract, they remain liable to provide a remedy for up to 6 years and that they may be committing a criminal offence by misleading consumers about their rights. Tell them they can either send the correct handles or you'll be making a claim against them for £x (whatever it would cost to source the handles) plus any and all reasonable costs incurred due to their breach.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • M.Wood
    • By M.Wood 13th Jul 17, 12:20 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    M.Wood
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:20 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:20 AM
    In no way does their stipulation of a '28 day' time limit trump the core of their contractual obligation to me the customer. Which is to provide the goods selected and paid for in the contract. Going by this '28 day' limit logic, would it be alright for Wren to supply me with an empty box for £10,000 and if for some reason I couldn't check it until the 29th day then that would be a case of hard luck "Read the small print".
    I just find it hard to believe that what appears to be a large reputible company would act in this way over a set of handles. Wren obviously recognises that a significant proportion of their business is generated via word of mouth and this seems like a terrible way to treat a customer.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 13th Jul 17, 12:26 AM
    • 2,178 Posts
    • 1,764 Thanks
    naedanger
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:26 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 12:26 AM
    Wren obviously recognises that a significant proportion of their business is generated via word of mouth and this seems like a terrible way to treat a customer.
    Originally posted by M.Wood
    Another thread about Wren Kitchens:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3461405&page=16
    • Sicard
    • By Sicard 13th Jul 17, 8:48 AM
    • 591 Posts
    • 488 Thanks
    Sicard
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:48 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:48 AM
    I'm totally shocked you received such bad service from such a wonderful company that has never ever had any complaints.
    Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
    Isaac Asimov
    • harrys dad
    • By harrys dad 13th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
    • 1,790 Posts
    • 1,996 Thanks
    harrys dad
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 17, 11:24 AM
    I am incredulous that a large company such as Wren Kitchens who must spend a considerable amount of time and money on their public perception would make a decsion such as this. Which in effect will turn a happy customer into a justifiabily aggrieved party.
    Originally posted by M.Wood
    Especially as you are the first "happy customer" of Wren Kitchens I have ever read about on here or any other consumer forum. I would have thought they would offer you a completely free kitchen as you are so rare.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 13th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    • 15,175 Posts
    • 10,973 Thanks
    hollydays
    Surely they must have satisfied customers.??
    Last edited by hollydays; 13-07-2017 at 11:55 AM.
    • Sicard
    • By Sicard 14th Jul 17, 9:53 AM
    • 591 Posts
    • 488 Thanks
    Sicard
    Surely they must have satisfied customers.??
    Originally posted by hollydays

    Anyone? Is anyone there?
    Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
    Isaac Asimov
    • cddc
    • By cddc 14th Jul 17, 12:52 PM
    • 1,117 Posts
    • 1,291 Thanks
    cddc
    I just find it hard to believe that what appears to be a large reputible company would act in this way over a set of handles.
    Originally posted by M.Wood
    They may be large ....but reputable...hmm.

    They do have satisfied customers for sure, but they also have a reputation for blaming the customer for their mistakes, being hopeless at sorting problems out when things go wrong, and poor post sale customer service.

    As well as the thread here, there any many others spread far and wide across the net and a large facebook group called Wren KItchen nightmares and more besides.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 14th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    • 8,772 Posts
    • 12,742 Thanks
    meer53
    Their website says that any discrepancies with deliveries should be notified within 72 hours.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 14th Jul 17, 2:57 PM
    • 2,730 Posts
    • 2,758 Thanks
    DoaM
    Their website can say what it likes ... they still need to comply with UK law.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

139Posts Today

1,191Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin