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  • FIRST POST
    • moo_cdf
    • By moo_cdf 12th Jul 17, 7:18 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    moo_cdf
    Parking Ticket, when ticket displayed & legal letters
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:18 PM
    Parking Ticket, when ticket displayed & legal letters 12th Jul 17 at 7:18 PM
    Hello,

    Can anyone offer advice?

    I had a parking ticket from Excel in January 2017. I had in fact purchased a ticket which covered me for the entire time I was in the car park and displayed this in my car window. I still have the ticket. I appealed the original PCN on Excel's website, pointing out that they have taken photos at an angle meaning that the ticket is not visible in their photos. I also pointed out that in one of their photos you can see the top corner of a piece of paper which is the ticket! I also sent them a copy of the ticket.

    They rejected my appeal and requested I paid them a reduced amount due to the circumstances and as a gesture of goodwill. They rejected the appeal saying it is the motorists responsibility to ensure the ticket is clearly displayed. I guess they are happy that i bought a ticket, but suggesting I did not display it clearly.

    After reading a number of forums I ignored this. I received another letter from Excel in June requesting payment of £70, which I also ignored.

    Today i recieved a letter from BW legal requesting the £70, plus initial legal costs of £60 to be paid within 16 days of the date of the letter, which is already 5 days ago! The letter came in the same envelope as one from excel. I think it is a standard letter as it also says that I "failed to make a payment or raise an appeal" which is incorrect as I did raise an appeal.

    Some websites suggest i can ignore this as it's not a 'letter before action'.

    Should I get in touch with BW Legal?

    A colleague has had the exact same issue (bought and displayed a ticket but still relieved a PCN from excel), so I feel like I don't want to pay out of principle as - they are clearly putting tickets on cars that are legally parked there! Having said that, i don't particularly want the hassle and potential extra costs of having to go to court.

    Any advice would really be appreciated.

    Many thanks,
    Mark
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,420 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    I think you and the colleague should:

    - write a joint complaint letter to your MP if you are in the same constituency, showing your MP(s) the scam that is going on with these photos being taken at an angle by a notorious ex-clamper firm famous for running the worst car park in England (I realise yours wasn't the Peel Centre, but this shows what they are like):

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/excel-finally-admit-ticket-was-issued.html

    - send a similar joint complaint to your local Trading Standards Officers, find out from the Council who to write to and don't be fobbed off to a central consumer phone 'service'.

    - copy in the landowners of this site (Google it).

    - reply to BW Legal like everyone else you see on the hundreds of BW Legal threads. There are no extra costs for defending a small claim. Excel could only claim £70 and court fees even if they won, which seems almost impossible.

    - Read the NEWBIES thread, post #2, which is all about court stage, including how to reply to a LBC from some random solicitor (but there is no substitute for searching the forum and reading tons of BW Legal threads, you will learn most from them

    - DO NOT PAY, not even for an easy life, we don't accept that here - it's sponsoring a scam.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 12th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    • 1,063 Posts
    • 667 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    requested I paid them a reduced amount due to the circumstances and as a gesture of goodwill.
    "goodwill" is an alien concept to private parking companies. It sounds more as if they have dropped their ransom demand, in the hope of getting something instead of nothing. There was a similar thread recently where a blue badge was clearly visible on the photo ; so they asked for less.

    Next step presumably will be some "photo-shopping" of the photos, to digitally erase the ticket. I hope my fellow posers are giving some thought as to how we'll combat that.
    • moo_cdf
    • By moo_cdf 12th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moo_cdf
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    Hello,

    Thanks for the replies. We live in different constituencies, and the car park is in a different city altogether, we were traveling for work.

    I will contact trading standards, do I need to go through the council of the area where the excel carpark is located? I will also find the landowner.

    The Newbies post was interesting reading, thanks for this suggestion!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Jul 17, 9:39 PM
    • 7,004 Posts
    • 6,074 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:39 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:39 PM
    If it did go to court the judge would have to decide whether or not, on the balance of probabilities, you were lying through your teeth, or they were.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jul 17, 9:42 PM
    • 14,537 Posts
    • 22,879 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:42 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:42 PM
    I hope my fellow posers are giving some thought as to how we'll combat that.
    I suspect we are all too busy looking at ourselves in the mirror! What are you doing in terms of thinking how to combat that?

    Next step presumably will be some "photo-shopping" of the photos, to digitally erase the ticket. I hope my fellow posers are giving some thought as to how we'll combat that.
    How would you suggest we 'combat' a presumption that there will be some "photo-shopping" of the photos, to digitally erase the ticket?

    Now this is on the road to a court claim, do you honestly think that (according to your hypothesis) Excel would do this and risk a PCOJ charge?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • moo_cdf
    • By moo_cdf 13th Jul 17, 6:37 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moo_cdf
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 6:37 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 17, 6:37 PM
    Hello,

    After reading the posts and templates, I have tweaked this template. Should I go in to any detail with BW Legal about my appeal? Explain that I had bought a ticket and still have this to provide as evidence should the case go to court?

    If I send this disputing the charge, do BW Legal have to stop contacting me and refer it back to excel? What should I expect to happen next?




    Dear Sirs

    Parking Charge Number xxxxx

    I refer to your letter of [insert date], and earlier correspondence.

    Firstly, I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client, and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

    Second, should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, they must provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct:

    link here

    Please also note that a failure and/or refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in a complaint being made to the court and an application for a stay of the action and costs pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 4 of the Practice Direction on non-compliance and sanctions.

    In the meantime, you should note that this charge is disputed, and you must now refer this matter back to your client and cease and desist all further contact with me. Failure to do so will result in a complaint to the Credit Services Association.

    I trust that I have made myself clear.

    Yours faithfully



    Again, any advice would be really appreciated

    Many thanks
    Mark
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    • 50,024 Posts
    • 63,420 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    That's an old template. There are newer ones in the NEWBIES thread post #2.

    There is no Annex A in the current practice direction, AFAIK.

    And are BW Legal even in the CSA? They are solicitors so the SRA would make sense.

    Have a look at the response I wrote for someone the other day, calling Gladstones 'Gallstones' and maybe amend that sort of thing to suit BW Legal instead. Found by searching the forum for gallstones!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-07-2017 at 8:33 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • moo_cdf
    • By moo_cdf 14th Jul 17, 7:20 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moo_cdf
    • #9
    • 14th Jul 17, 7:20 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jul 17, 7:20 PM
    From what I can gather from the threads they act as debt collectors and solicitors, and in this letter they are acting as collectors. I'll go back through the templates and try again. Thanks again!
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