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  • FIRST POST
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 12:56 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    Royal Mail - lose your credit card receipt - lose your property and your rights?
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 17, 12:56 PM
    Royal Mail - lose your credit card receipt - lose your property and your rights? 12th Jul 17 at 12:56 PM
    Over the years I have found the UK postal service, on the whole, to be reliable (lets not debate the unreasonable postage prices and all-too-frequent price increases at this point)- but it has taken one occasion of their failings for me to made painfully aware of the appalling inadequacies of the Post Office and, indeed, the Royal Mail itself.

    I recently paid for parcel to be sent, Tracked & Signed, to recipient in Slovak Republic (part of EU) - I attended my local post office in person and paid for the service using my debit card on the POS machine at the counter. I had pre-printed a very clear address label to avoid any issues with handwriting legibility and the post office themselves attached a return address sticker which I filled out at the counter.
    At no point did the person behind the counter give me any warnings or draw my attention to some of the data printed on the small piece of paper that was my debit card receipt. (I am not in the habit of sending tracked/signed parcels - sending something abroad is a rare thing for me and on this occasion I thought it best thing to do).

    Unfortunately, around a week later, I did what I imagine a lot of people do and shredded a whole bunch of receipts after I had reconciled them in my banking records. Big mistake.

    It turned out my parcel never got to the recipient (nearly 3 weeks now). I needed to investigate the situation and quickly realised that I needed my tracking number - this, apparently, was printed on my card receipt - the receipt I had shredded. All is not lost I thought as I have the payment transaction showing in my bank records and I can tell them exactly when I visited the post office, how much I paid and the address the address the parcel was sent to - they MUST have a record of this and therefore will be able to issue me with a duplicate receipt?

    No.

    In fact the post office told me they DELETE all payment records from customers who visit their counter AT THE END OF EACH WORKING DAY!

    So... I rang the Royal Mail customer service department - the local post office may have deleted their own payment records but surely they have a record on their system for the payment for my parcel?? (Remember - the payment receipt data includes my tracking reference...)

    No.

    Surely, given all the other data I have regards the parcel (date/address etc) they must be able to find the tracking number??

    No.

    Further insult added when a another member of their customer service team tried to explain that when the parcel is defined as LOST (in my case this will be about three and half weeks after postage date) - I should be able to complete a compensation claim form. Great! I thought... what do I need for that I asked? - Er, your tracking reference number...

    So, ladies and gentlemen - we entrust often valuable property to our wonderful post office but in return they have a completely inadequate record-keeping system for that property once you walk away from their counter - should, god forbid, you accidentally lose/destroy that credit card receipt. How can this be acceptable?
    IF I had been made aware, as a paying customer, of the significance of some of the digits on my card receipt and WARNED that if I lost the receipt I would lose all the rights to the property I had given them then I perhaps would have made an effort to have kept the receipt under lock and key - maybe in a safe... That little piece of paper has cost me the total value of the item sent and the postage I paid for it.

    I cannot believe, as a consumer, that this is right.

    During my lengthy chat with Royal Mail Customer Service (which devolved into an argument after nearly 45mins of being given the runaround) - I suggested that IF tracking numbers are a ONCE-ONLY generated piece of data at the point of sale then this reference number OUGHT to be incorporated as part of the transaction reference number that shows up in our bank statements in order that the consumer has some kind of backup? I argued this would be a relatively simple process to invoke but the idiot I was talking to was determined to tell me that "from an IT perspective" this would be an impossible task (this was customer service I was taking to - not their IT department). My proposal that maybe their post offices should retain customer payment records for maybe a few days/weeks was met with equal derision.
Page 2
    • photome
    • By photome 12th Jul 17, 4:18 PM
    • 12,778 Posts
    • 8,253 Thanks
    photome
    I assume you have have the same non-sympathetic attitude in following scenario:
    You go to a high street retailer and pay for a product that they have to order into stock for you with a view to you collecting few days later.

    You lose the receipt.

    You go to store, with card used to pay, bank statement showing payment etc but they tell you they have no record of the transaction because they purge their sales records on a daily basis.
    You are told you cannot have the item because you do not have the original receipt.

    Is this your perception of the the retail industry?
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Do you make a habit of losing "stuff". If someone handed you a £50 note I bet you would look after it and not shred it!
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 12th Jul 17, 4:27 PM
    • 9,599 Posts
    • 10,759 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    Do you make a habit of losing "stuff". If someone handed you a £50 note I bet you would look after it and not shred it!
    Originally posted by photome
    But if they did lose or shred it, it would be someone else's fault for not telling them to make sure they kept it safe.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 12th Jul 17, 4:29 PM
    • 2,199 Posts
    • 1,117 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Notwithstanding the foolhardiness of discarding the tracking number until proof of delivery was received, let's assume the OP has retained the tracking number and pops into his local PO to check if the parcel has been delivered (I know you cannot actually do this but bear with), hands over his tracking number and the PO counter operative says "No, we shred/destroy/discard/don't keep our records at the end of each day." How are they going to track the parcel???? I know you can track your parcels on-line by using the tracking number, so there is a record.
    • Huskydays
    • By Huskydays 12th Jul 17, 4:45 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 311 Thanks
    Huskydays
    Notwithstanding the foolhardiness of discarding the tracking number until proof of delivery was received, let's assume the OP has retained the tracking number and pops into his local PO to check if the parcel has been delivered (I know you cannot actually do this but bear with), hands over his tracking number and the PO counter operative says "No, we shred/destroy/discard/don't keep our records at the end of each day." How are they going to track the parcel???? I know you can track your parcels on-line by using the tracking number, so there is a record.
    Originally posted by Le_Kirk
    There is a record of the tracking number but it sounds like the post office don't retain any record of which specific transaction links with which specific tracking number.
    A witty saying proves nothing
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 5:25 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    Clearly having a bad day - of all the days I could have picked to post this question I picked the day the self-righteous brigade were frequenting the forum. Dear oh dear.
    Nobody here ever accidentally loses/misplaces anything - tedious bores and non-representative of the majority of us.
    Last edited by Captain Sensible; 12-07-2017 at 5:30 PM.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 12th Jul 17, 5:40 PM
    • 3,361 Posts
    • 5,736 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    But you didn't lose/misplace anything. You deliberately shredded it before bothering to check if it had been delivered. What if it had been a winning lottery ticket, would you have shredded that then blamed the shop for not having a record of your unique claim code and your winning numbers?

    The receipts clearly state on them to retain as proof, the fact you chose to either not read it or not pay attention is your own fault. Nobody is being self righteous, disagreeing with you does not mean they are wrong. It's very childish to throw your toys out of the pram for not getting the answers you want. As for not representing the majority, based on the replies so far it is you who is the minority.
    Last edited by Fosterdog; 12-07-2017 at 10:50 PM.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 13th Jul 17, 11:37 AM
    • 3,875 Posts
    • 2,883 Thanks
    sheramber
    But I take the action stated to ensure I do not lose the receipt.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 13th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 2,886 Posts
    • 3,903 Thanks
    George Michael
    I picked the day the self-righteous brigade were frequenting the forum. Dear oh dear.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Not quite.
    You actually picked the day that everyone told you how it is and not how you wanted it to be.
    If you only want replies that stated that everything was the fault of the Post Office and they are a big, nasty customer unfriendly organisation, try Mumsnet next time.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jul 17, 11:49 AM
    • 2,199 Posts
    • 1,117 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Clearly having a bad day - of all the days I could have picked to post this question I picked the day the self-righteous brigade were frequenting the forum. Dear oh dear.
    Nobody here ever accidentally loses/misplaces anything - tedious bores and non-representative of the majority of us.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Actually I was on your side (apart from saying you were silly to throw away the number before confirming delivery of item) but now I am not so sure!

    When you check on line and you have previously used the service, the drop down box has your old number(s) in it. Have you tried that?
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 13th Jul 17, 12:42 PM
    • 15,550 Posts
    • 11,330 Thanks
    hollydays
    I have some sympathy with the op. I occasionally lose posting receipts and once needed the receipt for a claim. However if I do this I only blame myself.
    Last edited by hollydays; 13-07-2017 at 1:14 PM.
    • takman
    • By takman 13th Jul 17, 1:26 PM
    • 2,825 Posts
    • 2,360 Thanks
    takman
    Clearly having a bad day - of all the days I could have picked to post this question I picked the day the self-righteous brigade were frequenting the forum. Dear oh dear.
    Nobody here ever accidentally loses/misplaces anything - tedious bores and non-representative of the majority of us.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Some posters have asked this but you haven't answered it; How did you think you actually tracked the parcel if the receipt contained no useful information?.

    Let's forget the fact you didn't actually loose or misplace anything; you cut it up into pieces and threw it in the bin.

    But personally i know that i do sometimes loose/misplace/forget important information. So i make sure that i cannot loose/misplace/forget it!. Any important information i will take a picture of on my phone which is backed up and synced with my main PC automatically, i also do occasional offline backups. So this mean i cannot loose it!. I also use a digital calendar and to do list which is synced in the same way across my devices.

    So not only did you not do anything to copy the information on the receipt, you didn't even read it before you destroyed it. How could that possibly be anyone's fault but your own?.
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 13th Jul 17, 4:50 PM
    • 2,968 Posts
    • 1,475 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    Clearly having a bad day - of all the days I could have picked to post this question I picked the day the self-righteous brigade were frequenting the forum. Dear oh dear.
    Nobody here ever accidentally loses/misplaces anything - tedious bores and non-representative of the majority of us.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    They frequent it daily Captain. Anyone would think none of them have a job of work.
    Did you hear about the politician who had a backside transplant? It rejected him.
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 20th Jul 17, 2:49 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    To conclude...
    This was not a debate over WHY I lost a receipt... (most of you however were simply determined to critique my receipt management policy) - the loss of my receipt revealed what appears to be an inadequate record-keeping system in place at the Post Office/Royal Mail/both.
    This is a valid area of concern.
    The manager of my local P.O. actually shares my concern in this respect.

    I really do hope (and pray) that one of the self-opinionated here actually experiences the same issue - ideally with a high-value item... No human is immune to accidentally losing things. Perhaps you folks need to pass on your worldly advice to our insurance companies - I am sure they would like to know your secret to an accident-free lifestyle.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th Jul 17, 2:59 PM
    • 4,517 Posts
    • 2,853 Thanks
    KeithP
    The manager of my local P.O. actually shares my concern in this respect.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Can I respectfully suggest that the manager of your local P.O. agreed with you in the hope that you would go away happy?

    It worked.
    .
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 20th Jul 17, 3:04 PM
    • 3,302 Posts
    • 4,794 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    To conclude...
    This was not a debate over WHY I lost a receipt... (most of you however were simply determined to critique my receipt management policy) - the loss of my receipt revealed what appears to be an inadequate record-keeping system in place at the Post Office/Royal Mail/both.
    This is a valid area of concern.
    The manager of my local P.O. actually shares my concern in this respect.

    I really do hope (and pray) that one of the self-opinionated here actually experiences the same issue - ideally with a high-value item... No human is immune to accidentally losing things. Perhaps you folks need to pass on your worldly advice to our insurance companies - I am sure they would like to know your secret to an accident-free lifestyle.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    You didn't lose your receipt - You shredded it. even though it clearly says you need to retain it as proof.

    You seem to be very bitter, even though this issue is of your own making,

    I bet you won't shred so quickly in future!
    • molerat
    • By molerat 20th Jul 17, 3:18 PM
    • 17,348 Posts
    • 11,521 Thanks
    molerat
    Can I respectfully suggest that the manager of your local P.O. agreed with you in the hope that you would go away. happy?

    It worked.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Corrected for you
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • custardy
    • By custardy 20th Jul 17, 3:26 PM
    • 32,696 Posts
    • 27,426 Thanks
    custardy
    I would say the OP definitely 'lost it'
    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 20th Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    • 784 Posts
    • 1,224 Thanks
    Hermione Granger
    To conclude...
    This was not a debate over WHY I lost a receipt... (most of you however were simply determined to critique my receipt management policy) - the loss of my receipt revealed what appears to be an inadequate record-keeping system in place at the Post Office/Royal Mail/both.
    This is a valid area of concern.
    The manager of my local P.O. actually shares my concern in this respect.

    I really do hope (and pray) that one of the self-opinionated here actually experiences the same issue - ideally with a high-value item... No human is immune to accidentally losing things. Perhaps you folks need to pass on your worldly advice to our insurance companies - I am sure they would like to know your secret to an accident-free lifestyle.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Lots of mentions of loss but why no mention of the real fate of the receipt?

    Unfortunately, around a week later, I did what I imagine a lot of people do and shredded a whole bunch of receipts after I had reconciled them in my banking records. Big mistake.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    revealed what appears to be an inadequate record-keeping system in place at the Post Office/Royal Mail/both.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    And what about the inadequate record keeping system of the person that held the receipt?
    • photome
    • By photome 20th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    • 12,778 Posts
    • 8,253 Thanks
    photome
    You didnt lose it!
    • kazzah
    • By kazzah 20th Jul 17, 11:04 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    kazzah
    I've lost it..........................
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