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  • FIRST POST
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 12:56 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    Royal Mail - lose your credit card receipt - lose your property and your rights?
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 17, 12:56 PM
    Royal Mail - lose your credit card receipt - lose your property and your rights? 12th Jul 17 at 12:56 PM
    Over the years I have found the UK postal service, on the whole, to be reliable (lets not debate the unreasonable postage prices and all-too-frequent price increases at this point)- but it has taken one occasion of their failings for me to made painfully aware of the appalling inadequacies of the Post Office and, indeed, the Royal Mail itself.

    I recently paid for parcel to be sent, Tracked & Signed, to recipient in Slovak Republic (part of EU) - I attended my local post office in person and paid for the service using my debit card on the POS machine at the counter. I had pre-printed a very clear address label to avoid any issues with handwriting legibility and the post office themselves attached a return address sticker which I filled out at the counter.
    At no point did the person behind the counter give me any warnings or draw my attention to some of the data printed on the small piece of paper that was my debit card receipt. (I am not in the habit of sending tracked/signed parcels - sending something abroad is a rare thing for me and on this occasion I thought it best thing to do).

    Unfortunately, around a week later, I did what I imagine a lot of people do and shredded a whole bunch of receipts after I had reconciled them in my banking records. Big mistake.

    It turned out my parcel never got to the recipient (nearly 3 weeks now). I needed to investigate the situation and quickly realised that I needed my tracking number - this, apparently, was printed on my card receipt - the receipt I had shredded. All is not lost I thought as I have the payment transaction showing in my bank records and I can tell them exactly when I visited the post office, how much I paid and the address the address the parcel was sent to - they MUST have a record of this and therefore will be able to issue me with a duplicate receipt?

    No.

    In fact the post office told me they DELETE all payment records from customers who visit their counter AT THE END OF EACH WORKING DAY!

    So... I rang the Royal Mail customer service department - the local post office may have deleted their own payment records but surely they have a record on their system for the payment for my parcel?? (Remember - the payment receipt data includes my tracking reference...)

    No.

    Surely, given all the other data I have regards the parcel (date/address etc) they must be able to find the tracking number??

    No.

    Further insult added when a another member of their customer service team tried to explain that when the parcel is defined as LOST (in my case this will be about three and half weeks after postage date) - I should be able to complete a compensation claim form. Great! I thought... what do I need for that I asked? - Er, your tracking reference number...

    So, ladies and gentlemen - we entrust often valuable property to our wonderful post office but in return they have a completely inadequate record-keeping system for that property once you walk away from their counter - should, god forbid, you accidentally lose/destroy that credit card receipt. How can this be acceptable?
    IF I had been made aware, as a paying customer, of the significance of some of the digits on my card receipt and WARNED that if I lost the receipt I would lose all the rights to the property I had given them then I perhaps would have made an effort to have kept the receipt under lock and key - maybe in a safe... That little piece of paper has cost me the total value of the item sent and the postage I paid for it.

    I cannot believe, as a consumer, that this is right.

    During my lengthy chat with Royal Mail Customer Service (which devolved into an argument after nearly 45mins of being given the runaround) - I suggested that IF tracking numbers are a ONCE-ONLY generated piece of data at the point of sale then this reference number OUGHT to be incorporated as part of the transaction reference number that shows up in our bank statements in order that the consumer has some kind of backup? I argued this would be a relatively simple process to invoke but the idiot I was talking to was determined to tell me that "from an IT perspective" this would be an impossible task (this was customer service I was taking to - not their IT department). My proposal that maybe their post offices should retain customer payment records for maybe a few days/weeks was met with equal derision.
Page 1
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 12th Jul 17, 1:16 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 2,619 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:16 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:16 PM
    You're blaming RM for your own error.

    Where did you think the tracking number was, if not on your receipt? How do you think a tracked parcel is tracked?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th Jul 17, 1:17 PM
    • 2,018 Posts
    • 2,437 Thanks
    waamo
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:17 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:17 PM
    For anybody who wants a condensed version: The OP chucked their slip of paper containing their Post Office tracking number away. The parcel is now missing and the Post Office can't retrieve a tracking number.

    I think that covers it.
    This space for hire.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 12th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    You keep talking about a credit card receipt. Why is that?

    You happened to pay by credit card, but you would've received a very similar receipt if you had used cash.

    It's a receipt - pure and simple - and you have shredded it.

    You have shredded your only record of the tracking number, but now you are trying to blame the Post Office and Royal Mail for you carelessness.

    Your situation is nobody's fault but yours.
    • OlliesDad
    • By OlliesDad 12th Jul 17, 1:26 PM
    • 1,755 Posts
    • 1,629 Thanks
    OlliesDad
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:26 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:26 PM
    O
    Unfortunately, around a week later, I did what I imagine a lot of people do and shredded a whole bunch of receipts after I had reconciled them in my banking records. Big mistake.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Do they? I think you may be surprised to learn that a lot of people keep receipts in case of an issues.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 12th Jul 17, 1:30 PM
    • 18,648 Posts
    • 15,549 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:30 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:30 PM
    During my lengthy chat with Royal Mail Customer Service.... My proposal that maybe their post offices should retain customer payment records for maybe a few days/weeks was met with equal derision.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    I guess you have not yet realised that Royal Mail and the Post Office are two separate companies.

    Really not much point in complaining to Royal Mail Customer Services about your perceived failings of another company.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 12th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    • 9,448 Posts
    • 10,614 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #7
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    My proposal that maybe their post offices should retain customer payment records for maybe a few days/weeks was met with equal derision.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible

    I'm not really surprised.
    Keeping any records longer than they need them would incur extra costs for both processing and storage so why do think that they should do this when it is of no benefit to them?
    They give all of the required information to their customers and then leave it up to them to look after their own paperwork.
    • bengal-stripe
    • By bengal-stripe 12th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    • 3,139 Posts
    • 2,018 Thanks
    bengal-stripe
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    At no point did the person behind the counter give me any warnings or draw my attention to some of the data printed on the small piece of paper that was my debit card receipt.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Actually, you would have gotten two receipts, stapled together.

    One was the receipt for the parcel, stating weight, destination, method of posting, tracking number etc. Also stating: 'It is important that you retain this receipt as it is your proof of posting'.

    The other receipt would have given you the particulars of payment, authorisation code and VAT rate and amount.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 12th Jul 17, 2:20 PM
    • 32,398 Posts
    • 27,163 Thanks
    custardy
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 17, 2:20 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jul 17, 2:20 PM
    Over the years I have found the UK postal service, on the whole, to be reliable (lets not debate the unreasonable postage prices and all-too-frequent price increases at this point)- but it has taken one occasion of their failings for me to made painfully aware of the appalling inadequacies of the Post Office and, indeed, the Royal Mail itself.

    I recently paid for parcel to be sent, Tracked & Signed, to recipient in Slovak Republic (part of EU) - I attended my local post office in person and paid for the service using my debit card on the POS machine at the counter. I had pre-printed a very clear address label to avoid any issues with handwriting legibility and the post office themselves attached a return address sticker which I filled out at the counter.
    At no point did the person behind the counter give me any warnings or draw my attention to some of the data printed on the small piece of paper that was my debit card receipt. (I am not in the habit of sending tracked/signed parcels - sending something abroad is a rare thing for me and on this occasion I thought it best thing to do).

    Unfortunately, around a week later, I did what I imagine a lot of people do and shredded a whole bunch of receipts after I had reconciled them in my banking records. Big mistake.

    It turned out my parcel never got to the recipient (nearly 3 weeks now). I needed to investigate the situation and quickly realised that I needed my tracking number - this, apparently, was printed on my card receipt - the receipt I had shredded. All is not lost I thought as I have the payment transaction showing in my bank records and I can tell them exactly when I visited the post office, how much I paid and the address the address the parcel was sent to - they MUST have a record of this and therefore will be able to issue me with a duplicate receipt?

    No.

    In fact the post office told me they DELETE all payment records from customers who visit their counter AT THE END OF EACH WORKING DAY!

    So... I rang the Royal Mail customer service department - the local post office may have deleted their own payment records but surely they have a record on their system for the payment for my parcel?? (Remember - the payment receipt data includes my tracking reference...)

    No.

    Surely, given all the other data I have regards the parcel (date/address etc) they must be able to find the tracking number??

    No.

    Further insult added when a another member of their customer service team tried to explain that when the parcel is defined as LOST (in my case this will be about three and half weeks after postage date) - I should be able to complete a compensation claim form. Great! I thought... what do I need for that I asked? - Er, your tracking reference number...

    So, ladies and gentlemen - we entrust often valuable property to our wonderful post office but in return they have a completely inadequate record-keeping system for that property once you walk away from their counter - should, god forbid, you accidentally lose/destroy that credit card receipt. How can this be acceptable?
    IF I had been made aware, as a paying customer, of the significance of some of the digits on my card receipt and WARNED that if I lost the receipt I would lose all the rights to the property I had given them then I perhaps would have made an effort to have kept the receipt under lock and key - maybe in a safe... That little piece of paper has cost me the total value of the item sent and the postage I paid for it.

    I cannot believe, as a consumer, that this is right.

    During my lengthy chat with Royal Mail Customer Service (which devolved into an argument after nearly 45mins of being given the runaround) - I suggested that IF tracking numbers are a ONCE-ONLY generated piece of data at the point of sale then this reference number OUGHT to be incorporated as part of the transaction reference number that shows up in our bank statements in order that the consumer has some kind of backup? I argued this would be a relatively simple process to invoke but the idiot I was talking to was determined to tell me that "from an IT perspective" this would be an impossible task (this was customer service I was taking to - not their IT department). My proposal that maybe their post offices should retain customer payment records for maybe a few days/weeks was met with equal derision.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Just quoting this awesome self fail.
    Yes it would be great if the PO kept a copy for you,or for example emailed it you.
    Their IT is old and in much need of investment.
    However they dont. They do however provide a receipt (regardless for payment method) with the tracking number included.


    Of course only one person loses out through your choice to shred this valuable piece of information.
    All the time you have spent on this rather than bothering to at least track your item?
    I'll leave you to think who the part in red refers to.




    Does it say just discard this receipt and waste hours later?
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    ...no separate receipt given to me.
    I lost my POS card payment receipt as I stated - this happens - responders so far seem to believe that they are beyond these errors...
    My argument is - in these circs we should STILL be able to request a duplicate receipt or at least rely on the local post office keeping these basic records for a few days in order that the lost data can be retrieved.
    If readers here still feel that this is an unreasonable expectation and that their lives are so perfectly organised and the concept of actually misplacing or losing a single card payment receipt is so alien then please share your life tips. I would love to have the ability to predict when I am about to misplace or lose items.
    Last edited by Captain Sensible; 12-07-2017 at 2:26 PM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th Jul 17, 2:28 PM
    • 2,018 Posts
    • 2,437 Thanks
    waamo
    ...no separate receipt given to me.
    I lost my POS card payment receipt as I stated - this happens - responders so far seem to believe that they are beyond these errors...
    My argument is - in these circs we should STILL be able to request a duplicate receipt or at least rely on the local post office keeping these basic records for a few days in order that the lost data can be retrieved.
    If readers here still feel that this is an unreasonable expectation and that their lives are so perfectly organised and the concept of actually misplacing or losing a single card payment receipt is so alien then please share your life tips. I would love to have the ability to predict when I am about to misplace or lose items.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    You didn't lose it though. You deliberately shredded it.
    This space for hire.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 12th Jul 17, 2:31 PM
    • 32,398 Posts
    • 27,163 Thanks
    custardy
    ...no separate receipt given to me.
    I lost my POS card payment receipt as I stated - this happens - responders so far seem to believe that they are beyond these errors...
    My argument is - in these circs we should STILL be able to request a duplicate receipt or at least rely on the local post office keeping these basic records for a few days in order that the lost data can be retrieved.
    If readers here still feel that this is an unreasonable expectation and that their lives are so perfectly organised and the concept of actually misplacing or losing a single card payment receipt is so alien then please share your life tips. I would love to have the ability to predict when I am about to misplace or lose items.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    I would argue in the main,a few days would be pointless.
    You needed it after a week or so,most often (from posts here) its longer.
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 2:31 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    I guess you have not yet realised that Royal Mail and the Post Office are two separate companies.

    Really not much point in complaining to Royal Mail Customer Services about your perceived failings of another company.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    ..well yes actually. The Royal Mail are actually delivering the item - the post office take the payment on their behalf.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 12th Jul 17, 2:34 PM
    • 32,398 Posts
    • 27,163 Thanks
    custardy
    ..well yes actually. The Royal Mail are actually delivering the item - the post office take the payment on their behalf.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    Yup and your issue is with not keeping a copy of the tracking no.
    How would you like RM to have contacted you after you posted it to give that information?
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 12th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    • 3,082 Posts
    • 1,791 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    The tracking numbers are all consecutive. Did you post anything else that day?
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 2:55 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    If a customer can provide proof of payment (bank statement), can provide details of when and where posted and the card used to make the payment it does show a failing in basic traceability record-keeping from an organisation where you expect traceability to be its ethos. As far as I am aware I am not entering a lottery when I am customer of the Post Office - the concept that a tracking reference number is printed exclusively on that single piece of paper smacks of the same mentality.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 12th Jul 17, 3:04 PM
    • 3,576 Posts
    • 2,657 Thanks
    sheramber
    Why should the Post Office keep a record if you didn't think it necessary to do so.

    When i post a parcel the receipt goes in my purse, as do other receipts.

    They get checked that they are no longer needed and tossed out after a few months usually, sometimes linger.

    Important ones for products that are under guarantee etc get filed away.
    • Captain Sensible
    • By Captain Sensible 12th Jul 17, 3:28 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Captain Sensible
    I assume you have have the same non-sympathetic attitude in following scenario:
    You go to a high street retailer and pay for a product that they have to order into stock for you with a view to you collecting few days later.

    You lose the receipt.

    You go to store, with card used to pay, bank statement showing payment etc but they tell you they have no record of the transaction because they purge their sales records on a daily basis.
    You are told you cannot have the item because you do not have the original receipt.

    Is this your perception of the the retail industry?
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 12th Jul 17, 3:37 PM
    • 3,162 Posts
    • 5,463 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    If readers here still feel that this is an unreasonable expectation and that their lives are so perfectly organised and the concept of actually misplacing or losing a single card payment receipt is so alien then please share your life tips. I would love to have the ability to predict when I am about to misplace or lose items.
    Originally posted by Captain Sensible
    I do find it unreasonable for someone expect a company or in fact anyone else to hold their hand and do everything for them. As for perfectly organised, that is far from me, I tend to be quite chatotic with my management of things and I'm always misplacing things. However knowing how bad I am at such things I take a photo on my phone or a screenshot of anything important like this. My phone is set to automatic back up so even if I lost it I would still have the photos of important receipts and such. People used to scan all receipts to their computers, other people have a dedicated place to keep them and only go through them periodically. None of that makes a perfectly organised person but it does make someone who takes reasonable responsibility for their own lives and actions.

    I would also argue that a reasonable person would not have expected a package to arrive in another country in just a week, thus shredding the receipt. Unless I've been told something I've sent has been received I would check the tracking myself regularly until it either shows as delivered or goes over the maximum timeframe, you waited for the recipient to contact you instead of being proactive and properly managing things yourself before destroying your only evidence of sending.

    There really is only one person at fault here, and being a nightmare customer spending 45 minutes arguing with their customer services for your own mistake shows you as the idiot and not them.
    • photome
    • By photome 12th Jul 17, 4:14 PM
    • 12,683 Posts
    • 8,160 Thanks
    photome
    For anybody who wants a condensed version: The OP chucked their slip of paper containing their Post Office tracking number away. The parcel is now missing and the Post Office can't retrieve a tracking number.

    I think that covers it.
    Originally posted by waamo
    From a poster who calls himself captain sensible
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