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  • FIRST POST
    • Martledge
    • By Martledge 11th Jul 17, 1:34 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 29Thanks
    Martledge
    Another win against Excel and Bwlegal - Chorlton Car Park
    • #1
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:34 PM
    Another win against Excel and Bwlegal - Chorlton Car Park 11th Jul 17 at 1:34 PM
    My wife went to Manchester court this morning and beat Excel. The Case was Excel v Metcalfe.

    Although we didn't start a thread, we followed advice and used information on this forum, Pepipoo and the Parking Prankster to build her case.

    Although she was very nervous before hand, the text she sent me after was "Done and dusted 10 mins it was ace". The judge also awarded £109 costs even though my wife couldn't find the cost schedule we had done. He quizzed her on how she got to the court, how much for parking, what her job was. He would have awarded more if she could have thought of anything else.

    We would like to thank all the posters for their hard work you do a brilliant job. We will post up a full court report in the next couple of days.

Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    • 6,350 Posts
    • 8,161 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    My wife went to Manchester court this morning and beat Excel. The Case was Excel v Metcalfe.

    Although we didn't start a thread, we followed advice and used information on this forum, Pepipoo and the Parking Prankster to build her case.

    Although she was very nervous before hand, the text she sent me after was "Done and dusted 10 mins it was ace". The judge also awarded £109 costs even though my wife couldn't find the cost schedule we had done. He quizzed her on how she got to the court, how much for parking, what her job was. He would have awarded more if she could have thought of anything else.

    We would like to thank all the posters for their hard work you do a brilliant job. We will post up a full court report in the next couple of days.

    Originally posted by Martledge
    Excel lose again

    WELL DONE

    CC judges wise to the Excel and BWLegal antics now

    Look forward to your report
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 17, 2:49 PM
    • 1,708 Posts
    • 3,108 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:49 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:49 PM
    Was this xxxx365W? And the judge?
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Martledge
    • By Martledge 11th Jul 17, 3:03 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Martledge
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:03 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:03 PM
    It was xxxx365W. Will post back name of the Judge when I find out from my wife. Rep was Miss Devans-Tamakloe from Elms.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Jul 17, 3:11 PM
    • 15,566 Posts
    • 24,306 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:11 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:11 PM
    It was xxxx365W. Will post back name of the Judge when I find out from my wife. Rep was Miss Devans-Tamakloe from Elms.
    Originally posted by Martledge
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-devans-tamakloe-05677946

    Barrister (Unregistered) needing pupilage. RoA???
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,185 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    "Done and dusted 10 mins it was ace". The judge also awarded £109 costs even though my wife couldn't find the cost schedule we had done.
    Brilliant! Well done to your wife!

    Looking forward to your wife's court report, to help calm other newbies down!

    I think Miss Devans-Tamakloe from Elms Legal, possibly doesn't even have Rights of Audience, she's been mentioned before (same lady with different spellings, one was only yesterday):

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/excel-lose-in-count-witness-irrelevant.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/ms-devenster-macklow-loses-another.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/bw-legal-incompetence-in-pursuing.html

    Her Rights Of Audience were called out by Matthew87 and the Judge listened:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72489107#post72489107

    Matthew87 said:
    ''Miss D-T told me that she received all her paperwork/instructions on Friday...She said that sometimes she gets everything the morning of the case(s).''
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-07-2017 at 3:18 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 11th Jul 17, 3:14 PM
    • 1,636 Posts
    • 2,738 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:14 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:14 PM
    Perhaps Defendants who later find out the rep had no RoA should write afterwards to the judge who heard their case, copied to the senior DJ at the court, to complain about it, with a template letter setting out the law clearly.
    Whilst this won't turn back the clock for them, perhaps it might turn the tide against the court's reluctance to address the issue properly and to turn a blind eye to it on the basis that "Oh Mr/Ms X has appeared in front of this court many times, of course he/she has RoA" Or "So Mr/Ms X, what are your qualifications?" "I'm a barrister" "well that seems fine then, on you go".
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 3:19 PM
    • 6,350 Posts
    • 8,161 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:19 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:19 PM
    It was xxxx365W. Will post back name of the Judge when I find out from my wife. Rep was Miss Devans-Tamakloe from Elms.
    Originally posted by Martledge
    The same lady who lost this one for Excel

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/excel-lose-in-count-witness-irrelevant.html
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Martledge
    • By Martledge 11th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Martledge
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    Thank you for all your replies.

    The Judge was District Judge Lyer.

    We considered challenging RoA and had completed the paperwork in advance. The night before we made the decision that we wouldn't go down this route as my wife wanted to focus on her defence and wasn't convinced she would be able to counter if the Judge said something similar to what Loadsofchildren wrote above "Oh Mr/Ms X has appeared in front of this court many times, of course he/she has RoA".

    Following on from Loadsofchildrens's idea.
    If the courts were "educated" and did enforce RoA consistently, would it force companies like BwLegal to send their own lawyers or engage properly with legal firms representing them, would this make them better equipped for the cases? Or would this business model be completely unaffordable for them? I suspect the latter.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    • 1,708 Posts
    • 3,108 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    District Judge Lyer.
    Liar? You may think so but I couldn't possibly comment.

    It will be DJ Iyer who does a lot of these now in Manchester.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 6:21 PM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,185 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Oh, the same marvellous Judge who slaughtered these PPC cases and gave us 'PACE v Lengyel' to use:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/es-parking-lose-spinningfields-case.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/pace-given-pasting-in-manchester.html

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 11th Jul 17, 6:48 PM
    • 2,145 Posts
    • 6,200 Thanks
    bargepole
    ... If the courts were "educated" and did enforce RoA consistently, would it force companies like BwLegal to send their own lawyers or engage properly with legal firms representing them, would this make them better equipped for the cases? Or would this business model be completely unaffordable for them? I suspect the latter.
    Originally posted by Martledge
    It wouldn't make them any better or worse equipped. If their legal arguments are fundamentally flawed, and the Judge is capable of seeing that, then it doesn't matter who the advocate is. I had one case where they sent a (registered) barrister from a leading London chambers, and they still lost: http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/pcm-uk-signage-does-not-create-contract.html

    Using the low level solicitor agents / unregistered barristers, costs the PPCs about £100 - £125 per case. Properly qualified advocates will typically charge £250-£300. So it would make their business model less affordable.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 29. Lost 9.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 17, 7:00 PM
    • 1,708 Posts
    • 3,108 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    So it would make their business model less affordable.
    And make judges' lives more bearable. Do they really want to spend an hour over £100 plus costs.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 8:18 PM
    • 6,350 Posts
    • 8,161 Thanks
    beamerguy
    .
    If the courts were "educated" and did enforce RoA consistently, would it force companies like BwLegal to send their own lawyers or engage properly with legal firms representing them, would this make them better equipped for the cases? Or would this business model be completely unaffordable for them? I suspect the latter.
    Originally posted by Martledge
    BWLegal like Gladstones and Wright Hassall work on the
    SW-SW-SW system

    SOME WILL - SOME WON'T - SO WHAT.

    BWLegal have a core business of chasing debts which is their
    business model.

    They decided to embark on the private parking industry ??
    BIG MISTAKE

    You will always have problems when you go to bed with scammers

    The BWLegal failures are all shown on google and will destroy their credibility as winners ... as in the parking industry they are losers

    Very bad for the BWLegal reputation one might think but the more
    they lose, and they will lose, as the courts are now seeing through
    their incompetence, they drag themselves into the sewers

    Best for BWLegal to dump the likes of Excel/VCS as the scams are
    not accepted in the courts
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Martledge
    • By Martledge 4th Aug 17, 12:37 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Martledge
    Apologies for the delay but hopefully this court report from my wife will help calm people's nerves and encourage them to stand up to the scammers.

    A bit of background because there was no thread previous to the court win.
    The original PCN in 2011 was ignored, which was the correct thing to do at the time. Last August the usual sequence of letters started from BwLegal.

    We ignored them because we couldn't believe they would go to court. In hindsight we should have responded then as they might have realised they had no case, but who knows they don't appear to follow any logic.

    Bwlegal issued a small claim in February.

    We followed the FAQ's on this board through all the stages, initial MCOL response, Defence, and Witness Statement. We used also used and tweaked forum templates where appropriate.
    We met all the deadlines in good time but spent the minimum time possible (probably more than bwlegal) around two hours an evening at each stage.

    We would like to pay for the transcript and send to the Prankster, could someone advise how we can get it?

    Report
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I got to the court in Manchester half an hour early which I needed to as the parking was a bit difficult and then there was a queue to get through security. I showed my letter to the reception and was directed to the 4th floor. Here, there is another reception and in front of me I realised was the BWLegal solicitor as she reeled off a few cases she was representing that morning.

    I sat relatively closely to her and she was reading the notes and on the phone checking things out most of the time. She possibly had only had sight of my defence on that morning.

    By 11am I was still waiting and had asked reception a few times what the hold-up was. Unfortunately for me one of the judges hadn’t turned up so there was a backlog. This meant that I had a few trips to the loo with the BWLegal rep, unbeknown to her!

    At about 1145 I went again to reception and asked for the name of the BWLegal rep and she told me she was Miss Devans-Tamakloe, a quick phone call to my husband and he had found out that she was a barrister needing pupillage.

    By this time, as I had been waiting so long the nerves had dissipated somewhat. Miss Devans-Tamakloe approached me and introduced herself and said that there was a judge stepping in for the one who hadn’t turned up and that he was reading the papers now and that it should be about 20 minutes.

    She was very pleasant and told me that she had read my statement and that it was quite straightforward, I agreed saying that it was very clear, she also said that she wanted me to feel like I really had had my say. This didn’t feel like she was trying to put me on the back foot but in hindsight, maybe she was. However, she was very nice and respectful to me throughout the period.


    Once we were called into the courtroom District Judge Iyers introduced himself and I got all my papers and evidence out and ordered them on the table in front of them. Little did I know that I wouldn’t even be asked to refer to them. District Judge Iyers then began by saying that he had never so far had a case which was 2011, a year before POFA.

    He then asked Miss Devans-Tamakloe whether or not there was anything in my defence where I had put ‘I’ when referring to driving or anything to do with the car park, she said there wasn’t.

    He asked did Excel have any evidence that I was the driver, she said they didn’t. He didn’t ask me to refer to any of my notes and said that the case was dismissed.

    He then asked me did I have anything to add, I asked was it too late to ask for costs, as I hadn’t put them in earlier. He said no and I started to try and find the costs that we had prepared but was in shock at the speed of the dismissal and was all fingers and thumbs.

    He asked me how I got to the court and worked out petrol costs and parking costs and then asked me what I did for a living and awarded the £95 for missing a days work. The final amount was £109, I could have got more if I’d found my costs as I could have charged for admin etc but I was delighted with getting costs at all and for winning the case to be honest.

    So, although it was stressful at times trawling the forums and writing the defence and witness statements and collating the paperwork, it was well worth it. It is appalling what these firms are doing and we have to stand up to the bullying behavior. The forums are invaluable and everything is on there that you need so don’t give in, push on through and the likelihood is that you will win the case.
    Last edited by Martledge; 04-08-2017 at 12:55 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Aug 17, 12:05 AM
    • 51,575 Posts
    • 65,185 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    We would like to pay for the transcript and send to the Prankster, could someone advise how we can get it?
    You can apply to a court-approved transcript service.

    The regular posters called 'bargepole' or 'Loadsofchildren123' may be able to suggest one, or ask 'lamilad', who obtained his transcript for the greater good of the community of victims of parking firms.

    Well done!

    I love your comments here, about why all this is worth the fight:

    ...it was well worth it. It is appalling what these firms are doing and we have to stand up to the bullying behavior. The forums are invaluable and everything is on there that you need so don’t give in, push on through and the likelihood is that you will win the case.
    As well as getting a transcript (if you do, just email it to the Prankster) you could also send a copy of the letters and your court outcome to your MP, and ask for his/her support for aspects of the proposed Govt Bill - when we get there - which restrain the worst parking scams. Hopefully your MP will take an interest in the subject; you could ask that he/she specifically votes to veto any proposal in the Bill that actually tries to legitimise this nasty, pointless, money-grabbing industry which has nothing whatsoever to do with parking 'management'.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-08-2017 at 12:14 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 11th Aug 17, 1:05 AM
    • 1,179 Posts
    • 2,342 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Great result, and an excellent report.

    Fantastic that you're getting the transcript, it will add more weight to any similar defences in the future.

    I used Apple Transcription, they were very efficient, but I didn't exactly shop around - as you can imagine from where they would appear in an alphabetically ordered list.

    Anyway, here's a list of all court approved transcription services, for you to choose from. I look forward to reading it

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/EX107-Info.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiAl87J783VAhVKJ8AKHc0sClcQFghv MAQ&usg=AFQjCNEll8pEl2dXiAV-pJkR4D38oEyqBQ
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