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Fine for leaving retail park on foot!?

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  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
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    golddustmedia wrote: »
    Obviously the signs wouldn't say "we have already issued fines" etc.
    I'm stating that my work colleagues HAVE received fines for parking then leaving on foot.

    i.e. Arrived and left the car park within the 4 hour parking limit, however within that 4 hours they left the site on foot and have been fined for breach of the terms and conditions of parking.

    Ah, well, we can only read and understand posts as to what the OP
    writes

    CCTV will have no bearing, at most of the cowboys use ANPR which is for number plates only, not walking or leaving.

    Not possible to prove unless they videoed you which is doubtful
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
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    Here's the rub. You can't work if you have nowhere to park. Retailers go bust if their customers have nowhere to park.
    So who has the greater case?

    This is a bit like the school run in a way. Wardens appear at the beginning of the school day and the end and scare the mums away or even book them. If I was a retailer on this park, I would do the same.

    I am all for helping motorists avoid swingeing charges, but at the same time have great sympathy for businesses who emply their staff having their income slashed by people freeloading.
  • golddustmedia
    golddustmedia Posts: 835 Forumite
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    beamerguy wrote: »
    CCTV will have no bearing, at most of the cowboys use ANPR which is for number plates only, not walking or leaving.

    Not possible to prove unless they videoed you which is doubtful

    However as I've stated, the ARE videoing the pedestrians and HAVE imposed fines for persons leaving on foot. They even went to the trouble of erecting a new CCTV camera at the end of the footpath just for this purpose.
  • golddustmedia
    golddustmedia Posts: 835 Forumite
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    Guys_Dad wrote: »
    Here's the rub. You can't work if you have nowhere to park. Retailers go bust if their customers have nowhere to park.
    So who has the greater case?

    This is a bit like the school run in a way. Wardens appear at the beginning of the school day and the end and scare the mums away or even book them. If I was a retailer on this park, I would do the same.

    I am all for helping motorists avoid swingeing charges, but at the same time have great sympathy for businesses who emply their staff having their income slashed by people freeloading.

    I agree with you :D

    My query though, is that where somebody is a customer of the retail park (e.g. buys a meal in one of the restaurants there) but for some period of the 4 hour parking entitlement leaves the site for whatever purpose, would it be enforceable to fine the person for their movements on foot whilst staying within the time limitations of the parking offered. This is what UKCPS have done.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,094 Community Admin
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    I'm with Rosemary7391.

    If there are terms, clearly expressed and with a risk premium (called a parking charge) that fits in with the needs of the Retail Park, on what basis do they think they can leave a ton of scrap for hours on end.

    The only way these parking parasites get invited into to plague others is when people feel they can leave their scrap metal for others to look after.

    Why not suggest to the car park owners that they make it pay and display so at least people can pay a reasonable amount to cover the costs of rates, resurfacing, cleaning lighting and security for the precious metal. At least that way, there would be no argument.
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
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    golddustmedia wrote: »
    I agree with you :D

    My query though, is that where somebody is a customer of the retail park (e.g. buys a meal in one of the restaurants there) but for some period of the 4 hour parking entitlement leaves the site for whatever purpose, would it be enforceable to fine the person for their movements on foot whilst staying within the time limitations of the parking offered. This is what UKCPS have done.

    This is an interesting gov site about CCTV.
    https://www.gov.uk/data-protection-your-business/using-cctv

    Are you sure it is UKCPS who installed CCTV or the retail park owners

    Whoever, did they notify the ICO of the reasons why ? and,
    are very clear signs displayed warning that CCTV is in operation
  • Rosemary7391
    Rosemary7391 Posts: 2,879 Forumite
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    IamEmanresu wrote: »
    I'm with Rosemary7391.

    If there are terms, clearly expressed and with a risk premium (called a parking charge) that fits in with the needs of the Retail Park, on what basis do they think they can leave a ton of scrap for hours on end.

    The only way these parking parasites get invited into to plague others is when people feel they can leave their scrap metal for others to look after.

    Why not suggest to the car park owners that they make it pay and display so at least people can pay a reasonable amount to cover the costs of rates, resurfacing, cleaning lighting and security for the precious metal. At least that way, there would be no argument.

    Also, if they don't get their way on this and it is causing them issues, they'll find another way around it. Like insisting on a certain spend before parking is free.
  • giraffe69
    giraffe69 Posts: 3,558 Forumite
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    I think you should drive in wearing a large green fedora hat and then leave on foot for a while wearing a large purple bowler hat. That way they would not be likely to match up the CCTV footage!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,700 Forumite
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    golddustmedia wrote: »
    However as I've stated, the ARE videoing the pedestrians and HAVE imposed fines for persons leaving on foot. They even went to the trouble of erecting a new CCTV camera at the end of the footpath just for this purpose.

    AFAIK from other cases like this, UKCPS are not videoing pedestrians and they have no CCTv access at all. They might be taking photos of people walking away but their evidence is dire.

    However, I would NEVER EVER use a UKCPS car park for convenience. They are a nasty ex-clamper firm with no appeal worth trying, and they sue people. Not good, I would NOT park there and I suggest you warn your colleagues.

    This is not an easy one and I would simply not park like that, it is not what the retailers want. I'm not on UKCPS' side (ever) but the car park isn't there as a work overspill for you and colleagues.

    I'm with Rosemary7391 and IamEmanresu on this one. And you will be sued by UKCPS and there will be misery all round.

    The one saving grace is, check with the Council about the planning permission for this car park. Ask if it was allowed on the basis that local people could use other local shops & businesses (i.e. does the planning permission say that people CAN leave the site to shop around the area?).

    If so, then there is a defence - there is always a defence in fact.

    But bottom line - I would avoid that car park like the plague.
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  • golddustmedia
    golddustmedia Posts: 835 Forumite
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    I think to provide greater clarification.

    The "work/business" location is an secure government site, so secure & restricted parking with no provision for visitors vehicles. Whilst this is fine for full time employees with a parking permit, the persons who are impacted are occasional visitors, for example a person coming for a job interview or meeting etc.

    The adjacent retail park benefits from workers at the business location who use it's services, whilst occasionally parking there. There is no practical alternative parking in the immediate vicinity of either location.

    So the nature of my query is really that whilst I am entitled to park at my work location, any person visiting my place of work is not permitted to. So they must find another location to park and the logical choice is the large retail park next door.

    What I'm trying to ascertain really is what advice to give someone visiting my place of work who has been fined for leaving the retail park on foot after parking there for a short period.

    In reality if the car park operated as pay and display it would suit me well, since I would advise visitors to park there and pay the relevant fee. Instead we're now advising visitors there is nowhere to park here!

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the first few letters to pedestrians turn out in terms of appeals etc.
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