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  • FIRST POST
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 11:55 AM
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    golddustmedia
    Fine for leaving retail park on foot!?
    • #1
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:55 AM
    Fine for leaving retail park on foot!? 11th Jul 17 at 11:55 AM
    There is a large retail park next door to my place of work which permits 4 hours of parking.

    Lots of people at my work park in the retail park and use the shops/restaurants for their lunch etc, staying within the 4 hour limit, but leave the retail park on foot to come into work - for example popping in for a meeting etc.

    The retail park have now put up signs advising that people may not leave the retail park whilst their car is parked there and have already issued fines for £100 to people they have monitored on CCTV walking from the retail park to the neighbouring business park.

    Personally I feel this isn't right - should a parking company be allowed to restrict your movement and fine you like this?

    I agree with those who are bound to say you shouldn't use the retail car park then go to work. I'm looking at this from the point of those of us who do use the retail shops but may have a reason to leave the retail park on foot for a short period. One example would be if someone is coming to our work for a job interview or short meeting. Perhaps they buy a coffee in Costa and/or a sandwich in Asda, but are then fined £100 for spending an hour outside the retail park on foot.

    My question, I know that private parking "fines" are not always legally enforceable but lets put the parking element to one side. Is it right to fine someone for where they went on foot whilst parked?
Page 1
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 17, 12:05 PM
    • 1,366 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:05 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:05 PM
    Is this UKPC?
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
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    The Deep
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    Leaving site is very difficult for a PPC to win at court. I doubt if a court would accept evidence from a cctv camera, how does it know who whether the car was next to be used by someone already shopping?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 12:53 PM
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    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:53 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:53 PM

    The retail park have now put up signs advising that people may not leave the retail park whilst their car is parked there and have already issued fines for £100 to people they have monitored on CCTV walking from the retail park to the neighbouring business park.
    Originally posted by golddustmedia
    Whose signs say this, the PPC or retail park ??
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
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    golddustmedia
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    Is this UKPC?
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    The sign says "This site is managed and operated by UKCPS LTD".

    Whose signs say this, the PPC or retail park ??
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    The signs are on every lamp post advising the car park is managed by UKCPS.

    Leaving site is very difficult for a PPC to win at court. I doubt if a court would accept evidence from a cctv camera, how does it know who whether the car was next to be used by someone already shopping?
    Originally posted by The Deep
    The exact wording on the sign is "The Driver of the vehicle must remain on site throughout the entire period of of parking" - No that's not my typing error, the sign actually reads "of of"!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 1:48 PM
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    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:48 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 1:48 PM
    "and have already issued fines for £100 to people they have monitored on CCTV walking from the retail park to the neighbouring business park."

    But do the signs actually say this
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
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    golddustmedia
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    "and have already issued fines for £100 to people they have monitored on CCTV walking from the retail park to the neighbouring business park."

    But do the signs actually say this
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    Obviously the signs wouldn't say "we have already issued fines" etc.
    I'm stating that my work colleagues HAVE received fines for parking then leaving on foot.

    i.e. Arrived and left the car park within the 4 hour parking limit, however within that 4 hours they left the site on foot and have been fined for breach of the terms and conditions of parking.
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 11th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
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    Rosemary7391
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
    Why not just park at work and walk to the retail park?

    I don't know if it's enforceable, but I guess it's the car parking equivalent of buying a cup of tea in a cafe and taking all day to drink it. They'd rather the space be taken by a more profitable customer.
    Me escondo detras de mi lengua... tengo miedo de que me entiendas... pero me gustara que me entendases ¡Ayudame!
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Jul 17, 2:24 PM
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    Johno100
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    Does this car park just serve the retail park or other local shopping and business areas as well? I'm asking because there can be occasions where these 'no leaving the site' rules can be in breach of planning conditions imposed by the local authority when the retail park was built. It may be worth enquiring with the council or see if you can find anything online.
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 2:25 PM
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    golddustmedia
    Why not just park at work and walk to the retail park?

    I don't know if it's enforceable, but I guess it's the car parking equivalent of buying a cup of tea in a cafe and taking all day to drink it. They'd rather the space be taken by a more profitable customer.
    Originally posted by Rosemary7391
    The root cause is that there's not enough parking at work. However parking at the retail park does encourage those parking there to be customer by purchasing their lunch etc on site.

    However my query is the policy of restricting peoples freedom to leave the retail park whilst still abiding by the time limits applicable to parking. i.e. Is it acceptable for a parking company to restrict where a person goes on foot after they have parked?
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 11th Jul 17, 2:30 PM
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    Rosemary7391
    The root cause is that there's not enough parking at work. However parking at the retail park does encourage those parking there to be customer by purchasing their lunch etc on site.

    However my query is the policy of restricting peoples freedom to leave the retail park whilst still abiding by the time limits applicable to parking. i.e. Is it acceptable for a parking company to restrict where a person goes on foot after they have parked?
    Originally posted by golddustmedia
    I think so, because they always have the option of leaving with their vehicle!
    Me escondo detras de mi lengua... tengo miedo de que me entiendas... pero me gustara que me entendases ¡Ayudame!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 2:36 PM
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    beamerguy
    Obviously the signs wouldn't say "we have already issued fines" etc.
    I'm stating that my work colleagues HAVE received fines for parking then leaving on foot.

    i.e. Arrived and left the car park within the 4 hour parking limit, however within that 4 hours they left the site on foot and have been fined for breach of the terms and conditions of parking.
    Originally posted by golddustmedia
    Ah, well, we can only read and understand posts as to what the OP
    writes

    CCTV will have no bearing, at most of the cowboys use ANPR which is for number plates only, not walking or leaving.

    Not possible to prove unless they videoed you which is doubtful
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 11th Jul 17, 2:44 PM
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    Guys Dad
    Here's the rub. You can't work if you have nowhere to park. Retailers go bust if their customers have nowhere to park.
    So who has the greater case?

    This is a bit like the school run in a way. Wardens appear at the beginning of the school day and the end and scare the mums away or even book them. If I was a retailer on this park, I would do the same.

    I am all for helping motorists avoid swingeing charges, but at the same time have great sympathy for businesses who emply their staff having their income slashed by people freeloading.
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 2:46 PM
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    golddustmedia
    CCTV will have no bearing, at most of the cowboys use ANPR which is for number plates only, not walking or leaving.

    Not possible to prove unless they videoed you which is doubtful
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    However as I've stated, the ARE videoing the pedestrians and HAVE imposed fines for persons leaving on foot. They even went to the trouble of erecting a new CCTV camera at the end of the footpath just for this purpose.
    • golddustmedia
    • By golddustmedia 11th Jul 17, 2:50 PM
    • 771 Posts
    • 369 Thanks
    golddustmedia
    Here's the rub. You can't work if you have nowhere to park. Retailers go bust if their customers have nowhere to park.
    So who has the greater case?

    This is a bit like the school run in a way. Wardens appear at the beginning of the school day and the end and scare the mums away or even book them. If I was a retailer on this park, I would do the same.

    I am all for helping motorists avoid swingeing charges, but at the same time have great sympathy for businesses who emply their staff having their income slashed by people freeloading.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    I agree with you

    My query though, is that where somebody is a customer of the retail park (e.g. buys a meal in one of the restaurants there) but for some period of the 4 hour parking entitlement leaves the site for whatever purpose, would it be enforceable to fine the person for their movements on foot whilst staying within the time limitations of the parking offered. This is what UKCPS have done.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 17, 2:55 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    I'm with Rosemary7391.

    If there are terms, clearly expressed and with a risk premium (called a parking charge) that fits in with the needs of the Retail Park, on what basis do they think they can leave a ton of scrap for hours on end.

    The only way these parking parasites get invited into to plague others is when people feel they can leave their scrap metal for others to look after.

    Why not suggest to the car park owners that they make it pay and display so at least people can pay a reasonable amount to cover the costs of rates, resurfacing, cleaning lighting and security for the precious metal. At least that way, there would be no argument.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jul 17, 3:11 PM
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    beamerguy
    I agree with you

    My query though, is that where somebody is a customer of the retail park (e.g. buys a meal in one of the restaurants there) but for some period of the 4 hour parking entitlement leaves the site for whatever purpose, would it be enforceable to fine the person for their movements on foot whilst staying within the time limitations of the parking offered. This is what UKCPS have done.
    Originally posted by golddustmedia
    This is an interesting gov site about CCTV.
    https://www.gov.uk/data-protection-your-business/using-cctv

    Are you sure it is UKCPS who installed CCTV or the retail park owners

    Whoever, did they notify the ICO of the reasons why ? and,
    are very clear signs displayed warning that CCTV is in operation
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 11th Jul 17, 3:27 PM
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    Rosemary7391
    I'm with Rosemary7391.

    If there are terms, clearly expressed and with a risk premium (called a parking charge) that fits in with the needs of the Retail Park, on what basis do they think they can leave a ton of scrap for hours on end.

    The only way these parking parasites get invited into to plague others is when people feel they can leave their scrap metal for others to look after.

    Why not suggest to the car park owners that they make it pay and display so at least people can pay a reasonable amount to cover the costs of rates, resurfacing, cleaning lighting and security for the precious metal. At least that way, there would be no argument.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Also, if they don't get their way on this and it is causing them issues, they'll find another way around it. Like insisting on a certain spend before parking is free.
    Me escondo detras de mi lengua... tengo miedo de que me entiendas... pero me gustara que me entendases ¡Ayudame!
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 11th Jul 17, 3:36 PM
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    giraffe69
    I think you should drive in wearing a large green fedora hat and then leave on foot for a while wearing a large purple bowler hat. That way they would not be likely to match up the CCTV footage!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 3:37 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    However as I've stated, the ARE videoing the pedestrians and HAVE imposed fines for persons leaving on foot. They even went to the trouble of erecting a new CCTV camera at the end of the footpath just for this purpose.
    Originally posted by golddustmedia
    AFAIK from other cases like this, UKCPS are not videoing pedestrians and they have no CCTv access at all. They might be taking photos of people walking away but their evidence is dire.

    However, I would NEVER EVER use a UKCPS car park for convenience. They are a nasty ex-clamper firm with no appeal worth trying, and they sue people. Not good, I would NOT park there and I suggest you warn your colleagues.

    This is not an easy one and I would simply not park like that, it is not what the retailers want. I'm not on UKCPS' side (ever) but the car park isn't there as a work overspill for you and colleagues.

    I'm with Rosemary7391 and IamEmanresu on this one. And you will be sued by UKCPS and there will be misery all round.

    The one saving grace is, check with the Council about the planning permission for this car park. Ask if it was allowed on the basis that local people could use other local shops & businesses (i.e. does the planning permission say that people CAN leave the site to shop around the area?).

    If so, then there is a defence - there is always a defence in fact.

    But bottom line - I would avoid that car park like the plague.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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