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  • FIRST POST
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 11:07 AM
    • 33Posts
    • 16Thanks
    toblerone13
    POPLA Appeal -UNSUCCESSFUL - PCN from Premier Park - 7 minutes!
    • #1
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:07 AM
    POPLA Appeal -UNSUCCESSFUL - PCN from Premier Park - 7 minutes! 11th Jul 17 at 11:07 AM
    I have received a PCN because anon parked at Vets 4 Pets without realising it wasn't the Tesco car park - Bitterne, Southampton. S/he was only there for 7 minutes. Can they really fine us £60, going up to £100, for this?

    Any advice much appreciated.
    Last edited by toblerone13; 20-09-2017 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Evidence submitted by PP
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Jul 17, 11:10 AM
    • 33,044 Posts
    • 16,998 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:10 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:10 AM
    You are politely asked to read up in the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread.

    All advice on how and when to appeal this is there.

    (It isn't a fine!)
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • 3,794 Posts
    • 5,354 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    short answer: no
    slightly longer: they have failed to follow their own trade associations code of practice, with regard to grace periods.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    Sorry Quentin - I do promise that I have the FAQ open in another tab and I am reading them now - just figuring out if PP are a BPA or IPC member.

    Half_way - thank you, I will have a look at the trade associations CoP - I will probably find a link in the FAQ...just speed reading them!
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:31 AM
    I'm an idiot. It says they are a member of BPA on the PCN!
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 11:41 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:41 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:41 AM
    Half_way - I have just read through the grace periods section on the BPA website and it seems to only give you a grace period if you have paid for parking or if you are deciding to use the car park. Anon got out of the car so s/he did decide to use the car park and s/he hadn't paid for any parking cos he thought it was free Tesco Express parking. I have google mapped it and the signs might be tricky to read. I think I need to go and take pics and see if they state on the signs that the parking charge will be £60/£100 if you park there.

    Hopefully I'm on the right track. If not, please let me know!
    Last edited by toblerone13; 12-07-2017 at 9:04 AM.
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 11:47 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:47 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:47 AM
    One more question, I have read the FAQ but maybe I'm being stupid. If/when I use the Premier Park appeals online form, does that stop the £60 going up to £100?
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 11th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    Assuming that when I go and take pics I think that the signs are rubbish I am going to issue the following...

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No.

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,


    Do you think I need to change the wording a bit more from the template? Should I mention grace periods?

    Thank you for all your help. Feels really unfair to charge us £60 minimum for 7 minutes.
    Last edited by toblerone13; 12-07-2017 at 9:01 AM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Jul 17, 3:10 PM
    • 15,944 Posts
    • 19,970 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:10 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:10 PM
    remove the reference number above

    NEVER put personal info on a public website or forum

    definitely mention grace periods , ie:- clause #13

    clause #13 allows an initial grace period to either comply or leave , this is usually accepted as up to 10 minutes , so 7 minutes is not unreasonable

    so read the BPA CoP again , especially the first part , about the initial period

    and alter the above to

    Should you have obtained
    Last edited by Redx; 11-07-2017 at 3:13 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    • 50,577 Posts
    • 63,959 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If/when I use the Premier Park appeals online form, does that stop the £60 going up to £100?
    Originally posted by toblerone13
    That's not in the FAQ because the 'discount' (a bribe not to appeal) means NOTHING AT ALL to people when they appeal. Stop looking at £60 as if it is a bargain. That's why I don't mention it in the sticky thread, who gives a stuff about their artificial bribes & deadlines designed to make you rush, or worse, panic and pay?

    You are appealing a £100 PCN from a nasty ex-clamper firm, not worthy of your money, who CANNOT issue a PCN after seven minutes because it breaches the rules on Grace Periods.

    But - no need to mention Grace Periods until POPLA stage, it's not as if this nasty bunch are ever seen to cancel any.

    Make sure that appeal is done in the right name (the recipient of the PCN).

    And please go back and edit all your posts that talk about what the driver did, please REMOVE that public information. The car was parked, a PCN was issued. That's all we (and others nosing at this forum) need to know.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-07-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 11th Jul 17, 6:25 PM
    • 2,477 Posts
    • 3,713 Thanks
    fisherjim
    The driver did get out of the car so he did decide to use the car park
    Originally posted by toblerone13
    What?

    If the signs are in small print, high up, difficult to read etc., I would imagine he would have to get out of the car to try to make sense of the rules.

    Seven minutes is not long to; drive in, find a space, locate signs, read, digest the rules, and then get back to the car and leave is it?
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 20th Jul 17, 8:43 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    I have submitted my appeal. I'm assuming the norm is that they decline to back down!?
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 20th Jul 17, 8:48 AM
    • 2,477 Posts
    • 3,713 Thanks
    fisherjim
    I have submitted my appeal. I'm assuming the norm is that they decline to back down!?
    Originally posted by toblerone13
    Backing down isn't very lucrative and remember these are companies driven by greed and very little else!
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 20th Jul 17, 8:54 AM
    • 5,768 Posts
    • 5,237 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Seven minutes is not long to; drive in, find a space, locate signs, read, digest the rules, and then get back to the car and leave is it?
    Originally posted by fisherjim
    This sounds like a "left the site" invoice, so I'm not sure they can do much with grace periods. OP can obviously deny that anyone parked and left the site and leave it for the parking company to prove. Or they could ask why the parking agent didn't stop this individual to ask them for the £100 as they were leaving.

    I could be wrong though. @OP - can you confirm what the invoice is for?
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 21st Jul 17, 9:18 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    It wasn't a 'you can pay and park here' it was a 'this is Vets4Pets' parking so you can't park here unless you're going into Vets4Pets. So no one was there to monitor the car park. Just cameras.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 21st Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • 2,477 Posts
    • 3,713 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Looking at google streetview there is an ANPR camera on the entrance, surprisingly for eight plus one disabled parking spaces, but I suspect it's very lucrative for them being next to a Tesco Local.

    But it does show that the signage is woefully inadequate.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 2nd Aug 17, 3:13 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    I have received a reply. If I post it will someone help me with the response? Or should I just ignore it?

    Many Thanks for all the help
    Last edited by toblerone13; 02-08-2017 at 3:20 PM.
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 2nd Aug 17, 3:16 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.



    We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:

    Link to legislation . Gov site


    We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 8th August 2017. Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.



    If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.



    If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit 'link to pcn'



    Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Aug 17, 3:21 PM
    • 15,944 Posts
    • 19,970 Thanks
    Redx
    assuming you dont want to identify the driver (which very , very few people would)

    you wait it out until they issue a rejection and a popla code

    in other words, you IGNORE their letter
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • toblerone13
    • By toblerone13 3rd Aug 17, 9:19 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    toblerone13
    Thank you Redx

    I shall ignore away!!
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