Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 10:35 AM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    Car on finance - repairs
    • #1
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:35 AM
    Car on finance - repairs 11th Jul 17 at 10:35 AM
    My son purchased a car on finance for £3000 last May, we would rather he hadn't done this, but didn't know about it until he turned up with the car. The finance is up to date, it is £116 a month over three years. The car had 100,000 miles on the clock, and in my opinion was not worth £3,000. The car had three months warranty on it.


    In February just gone, the cam belt went and the car required a new engine which cost £3,000.
    Due to it being on finance, we didn't know what to do, so decided to go ahead and have the new engine and I paid for it on a credit card (which I have now transferred to an interest free card and he is paying off), as we couldn't scrap the car, and there was still lots of finance owing.


    The car was in the garage for four weeks, just as the new engine had been fitted, the garage made a mistake and the engine blew, the garage then took another four weeks to source and fit a new engine. The garage gave him a 12 month warranty.


    Since then the car has repeatedly broken down, once requiring another new engine as the cam belt went, and twice for water leaks / oil going into the water reservoir. Each time there is not charge for this, but the car is in the garage for long periods as clearly it is not a priority as the garage is not being paid for it. This time it was in 8 weeks for the engine, had it back a month and then back in for a week, had it back for three days and now it is currently back in the garage.


    Over the past five months, I would say my son has had the use of the car for two months tops. It is hugely inconvenient as he works in a rural area and starts early, there is no public transport, so I am having to take him to work and try and fit my job around this. The garage have said they do not have a courtesy car available. He is too young for a hire car.


    My question is this: Should I approach the garage owner and come to an arrangement for a partial refund, pay off the finance with that and let my son start from scratch - as surely this is costing the garage owner as much money and inconvenience as us? The car is no longer reliable, you never know if you are going anywhere in it if it is going to break down. I would have thought after three new engines, the car would be in great working order.


    We have heard that if car finance is over halfway through you can hand the car back to them and the debt is cleared - is this true? Or does it depend on the value of the car?


    If the car was actually working and he could use it, he would be happy to carry on paying the finance and driving it around, but after spending all that money at a garage, we feel that his car should be fixed, and not breaking down every week or month, and him never feeling at ease if he drives somewhere it won't break down.


    He has learnt his lesson regarding taking out finance, but what are our options now?


    Thanks in advance, will try to answer any questions although not really too knowledgeable about cars!
Page 1
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 11th Jul 17, 10:55 AM
    • 2,391 Posts
    • 1,723 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:55 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:55 AM
    Depends on what kind of finance it is, PCP, HP or personal?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 10:56 AM
    • 15,297 Posts
    • 13,638 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:56 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:56 AM
    My son purchased a car on finance for £3000 last May, we would rather he hadn't done this, but didn't know about it until he turned up with the car. The finance is up to date, it is £116 a month over three years. The car had 100,000 miles on the clock, and in my opinion was not worth £3,000. The car had three months warranty on it.
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    Whether the car itself was poor value or not is pretty much beside the point. At those repayments, he's looking at about 25% APR, so I suspect a very sub-prime deal. That's how these deals work - high APR, high purchase price, be grateful we're lending you anything = profitable after the high rate of defaults.

    In February just gone, the cam belt went and the car required a new engine which cost £3,000.
    So he'd owned the car for nine months at that point. When was the belt last changed, relative to the schedule?

    The car was in the garage for four weeks, just as the new engine had been fitted, the garage made a mistake and the engine blew, the garage then took another four weeks to source and fit a new engine.
    So the garage made a mistake, owned up to it, and stood by it. Good for them.

    The garage gave him a 12 month warranty.

    Since then the car has repeatedly broken down, once requiring another new engine as the cam belt went, and twice for water leaks / oil going into the water reservoir. Each time there is not charge for this, but the car is in the garage for long periods as clearly it is not a priority as the garage is not being paid for it. This time it was in 8 weeks for the engine, had it back a month and then back in for a week, had it back for three days and now it is currently back in the garage.
    And they're standing by their warranty. Again, good for them, although their timeliness could be better.

    My question is this: Should I approach the garage owner and come to an arrangement for a partial refund, pay off the finance with that and let my son start from scratch - as surely this is costing the garage owner as much money and inconvenience as us?
    This is very probably your best bet, and I'm sure he will be only too happy to come to some kind of arrangement. Don't expect too much, though. The car is basically worth scrap value as is. What would it be worth if running? I'd suggest that the difference between those figures would be a suitable place to start negotiating with the garage. Basically, he buys the car off you as if it was healthy.

    I would have thought after three new engines, the car would be in great working order.
    The engines may be new to your son's car - they are not new. They are as reliable as they were in the scrapped car they've been taken out of. His original engine was going just fine until lack of expected preventative maintenance killed it.

    We have heard that if car finance is over halfway through you can hand the car back to them and the debt is cleared - is this true? Or does it depend on the value of the car?
    Yes, you can - but the car needs to be in an appropriate condition, basically fair wear and tear only over the purchase condition.
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • 317 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    wgl2014
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    Sounds like speaking to the garage may be a good idea if you have lost any interest in throwing more money at the car.

    With regards ending the finance agreement early this would be a voluntary termination and would possibly be available depending on what kind of finance your son has. There's a guide here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?77612-A-guide-to-voluntary-termination-Your-rights
    A couple of points: you need to have paid at least half the total owed (loan and interest and fees) and the car must be in reasonable condition so would need to be fixed.

    Unfortunately it may be best to cut your losses and either keep making the finance payment for a broken car/ pay it off early and then start again with a different vehicle.
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 11:06 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:06 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:06 AM
    Thanks for the replies.


    The finance is personal - he was a high risk customer due to his age, lack of credit history.


    The cam belt had never been changed, however the garage looked up the recommendations on the manufacturers website, and it said change cam belt between 90,000 and 124,000 miles, so it was still within those parameters so no come back re the "full service history".


    The garage have been great - I can't fault them, and I do trust them, it is just that the car is in there for so long - if the garage could lend him a car that would help. I have got the expectation though that by paying them £3,000 the car should be in running order. The last time the car was in there, they MOT'd it also, which cost £300 as there were issues with the tyres and brakes.


    With returning the car to the finance company - the car is actually in good condition apart from the mechanical issues, so if it was a period that it was fixed and running, would they take it back or would we have to highlight the issues we have had with the engine? How do we go about getting them to take it back once the loan is halfway through?


    Of course, we could get the car back this time and it run fine..... can always hope!
    Last edited by anotherlightbulb; 11-07-2017 at 12:55 PM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • 15,562 Posts
    • 8,915 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:17 AM

    The cam belt had never been changed, however the garage looked up the recommendations on the manufacturers website, and it said change cam belt between 90,000 and 124,000 miles, so it was still within those parameters so no come back re the "full service history".
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    Sounds awfully long for a cambelt interval

    Whats the year, make, model and engine size / type of the car?
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Geodark
    • By Geodark 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    • 727 Posts
    • 455 Thanks
    Geodark
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    Thanks for the replies.

    The cam belt had never been changed, however the garage looked up the recommendations on the manufacturers website, and it said change cam belt between 90,000 and 124,000 miles, so it was still within those parameters so no come back re the "full service history".
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    but the change interval isnt just on miles, its also on age - eg, 80k miles or 5 years. so the mileage may be correct, but if the belt is too old it should have been changed. As said though, thats a lot of miles for a belt. My last car was every 40k
    Last edited by Geodark; 11-07-2017 at 7:31 PM.
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:31 PM
    " Whats the year, make, model and engine size / type of the car? "


    It is a 2008 Ford Focus 1.9tdi estate (a state!)
    Last edited by anotherlightbulb; 11-07-2017 at 12:35 PM.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 17, 12:36 PM
    • 731 Posts
    • 558 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:36 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 12:36 PM


    It is a 2008 Ford Focus 1.9tdi estate (a state!)
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    Are you sure it's a 1.9?
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:36 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    I am not sure whether we would have any comeback from where the car was purchased - it was sold with a "full service history" which in reality was a couple of bits of paper showing two services, no cam belt change mentioned - the mechanic at the current garage showed me the old cambelt and it was smooth in places.
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:38 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    I just put the reg into the tax/MOT page, and it comes up as a 1.8, sorry - not a 1.9 - a 1.8
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • 15,297 Posts
    • 13,638 Thanks
    AdrianC
    "Full service history" is a very flexible phrase. It might just mean that there's a full history of all the servcing the car's ever had. By buying the car, he accepted that he was happy with that situation. It's not like he hadn't seen it before purchase.

    So we're talking about an 8yo 100k car, with no record of a belt change? Official interval for a 2008 1.8TDCi (different engine to 1.6TDCi) is 10yr/125k - so it was just within schedule. Whether it's wise to let it go to the full schedule is another question entirely. With intervals that extended, it's a gamble...
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    Basically, he has been well and truly rinsed, which is his own fault for thinking he could go off and do it without our advice...... the insurance was also an horrendous amount.


    That said, can't keep going on about it, its a very expensive lesson learnt - just need to know if there is a way to come out of this without being £3k down on repairs plus £3K+ on finance for a pile of !!!!!/no working car at all.....
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:43 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    "Full service history" is a very flexible phrase. It might just mean that there's a full history of all the servcing the car's ever had. By buying the car, he accepted that he was happy with that situation. It's not like he hadn't seen it before purchase.

    So we're talking about an 8yo 100k car, with no record of a belt change? Official interval for a 2008 1.8TDCi (different engine to 1.6TDCi) is 10yr/125k - so it was just within schedule. Whether it's wise to let it go to the full schedule is another question entirely. With intervals that extended, it's a gamble...
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Indeed, and if he had said what he was up to, I would have advised accordingly although I have limited car knowledge, I could have paid for the RAC to check it out.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 12:44 PM
    • 15,297 Posts
    • 13,638 Thanks
    AdrianC
    That said, can't keep going on about it, its a very expensive lesson learnt - just need to know if there is a way to come out of this without being £3k down on repairs plus £3K+ on finance for a pile of !!!!!/no working car at all.....
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    Like I said earlier - start negotiating with the garage around the difference between scrap value (couple of hundred quid) and healthy trade-in value. In good condition, maybe £1,500-worth.
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 12:53 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    Like I said earlier - start negotiating with the garage around the difference between scrap value (couple of hundred quid) and healthy trade-in value. In good condition, maybe £1,500-worth.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    I'm not sure whether it would be more financially beneficial to get it running, get half way through the finance and for him to ask the finance company to take it back, as there will still be 18 months x £116 owing which is over £2K. Does doing this affect your credit rating? Or can they refuse to take it back because of all the mechanical problems?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 1:02 PM
    • 15,297 Posts
    • 13,638 Thanks
    AdrianC
    If you pay it off now, you're not still accruing interest at 25% APR, so the total due will be a big chunk less.

    Is it car finance (PCP, lease) or is it - as I suspect - a personal loan secured on the car? If so, then 50%-paid VT doesn't apply.
    • anotherlightbulb
    • By anotherlightbulb 11th Jul 17, 1:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    anotherlightbulb
    If you pay it off now, you're not still accruing interest at 25% APR, so the total due will be a big chunk less.

    Is it car finance (PCP, lease) or is it - as I suspect - a personal loan secured on the car? If so, then 50%-paid VT doesn't apply.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    I will need to get my son to find the agreement from the finance company, as I am not sure what type of loan it is.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 17, 1:17 PM
    • 731 Posts
    • 558 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    I am not sure whether we would have any comeback from where the car was purchased - it was sold with a "full service history" which in reality was a couple of bits of paper showing two services, no cam belt change mentioned - the mechanic at the current garage showed me the old cambelt and it was smooth in places.
    Originally posted by anotherlightbulb
    Cambelt it a consumable part, if was within fords recommended mileage and age for a change I don't see why there'd be any comeback on that garage who sold it.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

387Posts Today

3,545Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @LordsEconCom: On Tuesday Martin Lewis, Hannah Morrish & Shakira Martin gave evidence to the Cttee. Read the full transcript here: https?

  • Ta ta for now. Half term's starting, so I'm exchanging my MoneySavingExpert hat for one that says Daddy in big letters. See you in a week.

  • RT @thismorning: Can @MartinSLewis' deals save YOU cash? ???? https://t.co/igbHCwzeiN

  • Follow Martin