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  • FIRST POST
    • FraserGreen
    • By FraserGreen 10th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 1Thanks
    FraserGreen
    Deposit Dispute
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
    Deposit Dispute 10th Jul 17 at 9:03 PM
    Looking for some advice. We have had tenants in our house for the last 12 months. Last weekend we received the keys back and did a final inspection. During the inspection we noted severe damage to our carpets (paint spills, burns, pen), walls (pen, nail varnish etc on every wall) and they've nailed our handmade blinds to the walls to make them black out.

    There was a basic inventory taken at the start of the tenancy in the form of emails identifying items which we knew about and that overall the house was in good condition. This was agreed by all parties.

    I produced a 'Final Inspectiom Report' outlining the situation and photo evidence. I stated that we will be retaining the deposit (£700) (it's stored in MyDepositScotland) and also we'll be looking for funds to cover additional damages out with the deposit as per the tenancy agreement. Their initial response has been negative and they're disputing.

    My question is...can we get any contractor to do the work as long as we have a clear invoice for works carried out and then ask for the additional money from the tenants? Or do I need to get the tenants to accept before any works are carried out?

    Another option is pay our insurance excess, would the tenants be liable for this?

    I have landlord insurance and accidental damage cover which most of this will cover but have been advised £200 excess per incident (one incident being mark on carpet, another being mark on wall, estimate of total excess is £1500).

    Clause in tenancy agreement 'The deposit shall be held by the Landlord or Landlords Agent to meet any claims against the Tenants in respect of any damage to the furnishings or fabric of the Property and any outstanding electricity, gas or telephone charges and any other sums including rental payments due by the Tenants arising from this Lease. In the event that the total sum so owed by the Tenants
    exceeds the amount of the deposit the excess shall be paid by the Tenants to the Landlord or Landlords Agent within seven days of the date on which the Tenants receive intimation of such excess.'
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    • 11,095 Posts
    • 15,359 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    You're not entitled to betterment, in other words you don't get new for old. As the landlord the onus is on you to prove any deductions are reasonable and by the sounds of things the check-in inventory is a bit flimsy.

    If you can't agree with the tenants about the deductions they can raise a dispute with My Deposit Scotland. Then it's either a case of using the ADR service or going to sheriff court.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    • 11,095 Posts
    • 15,359 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    Looking for some advice. We have had tenants in our house for the last 12 months. Last weekend we received the keys back and did a final inspection. During the inspection we noted severe damage to our carpets (paint spills, burns, pen), walls (pen, nail varnish etc on every wall) and they've nailed our handmade blinds to the walls to make them black out.

    There was a basic inventory taken at the start of the tenancy in the form of emails identifying items which we knew about and that overall the house was in good condition. This was agreed by all parties.

    I produced a 'Final Inspectiom Report' outlining the situation and photo evidence. I stated that we will be retaining the deposit (£700) (it's stored in MyDepositScotland) and also we'll be looking for funds to cover additional damages out with the deposit as per the tenancy agreement. Their initial response has been negative and they're disputing.

    My question is...can we get any contractor to do the work as long as we have a clear invoice for works carried out and then ask for the additional money from the tenants? Or do I need to get the tenants to accept before any works are carried out?

    Another option is pay our insurance excess, would the tenants be liable for this?

    I have landlord insurance and accidental damage cover which most of this will cover but have been advised £200 excess per incident (one incident being mark on carpet, another being mark on wall, estimate of total excess is £1500).

    Clause in tenancy agreement 'The deposit shall be held by the Landlord or Landlords Agent to meet any claims against the Tenants in respect of any damage to the furnishings or fabric of the Property and any outstanding electricity, gas or telephone charges and any other sums including rental payments due by the Tenants arising from this Lease. In the event that the total sum so owed by the Tenants
    exceeds the amount of the deposit the excess shall be paid by the Tenants to the Landlord or Landlords Agent within seven days of the date on which the Tenants receive intimation of such excess.'
    Originally posted by FraserGreen
    You don't need to wait until the deductions are agreed before starting the work but be prepared for the possibility of not getting all the money you pay out back.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • FraserGreen
    • By FraserGreen 10th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    FraserGreen
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:35 PM
    You're not entitled to betterment, in other words you don't get new for old. As the landlord the onus is on you to prove any deductions are reasonable and by the sounds of things the check-in inventory is a bit flimsy.

    If you can't agree with the tenants about the deductions they can raise a dispute with My Deposit Scotland. Then it's either a case of using the ADR service or going to sheriff court.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Thanks, I guess that's my concern. The inventory was just an email with points and agreement by both parties. Not sure how that would stand up in a dispute or court situation.

    Agree, not trying to claim betterment.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 9:46 PM
    • 41,890 Posts
    • 48,474 Thanks
    G_M
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:46 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:46 PM
    1) the check in inventory is important. OK, if the tenants don't question your proposed deductions (" yes we poured paint on the carpet") there's no problem. But if they say "That paint stain was there when we moved in", or "carpet? What carpet? There was no carpet- we bought that carpet." then your inventory becomes important evidence.

    Next time use a qualified AIIC Inventory Clerk.

    2) Geting a couple of competitive written quotes is advisable before you start work.

    3) Remember 'betterment'. If the carpet is now 8 years old (for example), it's probably near the end of its life anyway. A brand new carpet paid by the tenants would leave you better off than if they'd not caused damage & just left you an 8 year old carpet.

    You can claim perhaps 2/10ths of the replacement value (assuming a 10 year lifespan)
    • FraserGreen
    • By FraserGreen 10th Jul 17, 9:55 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    FraserGreen
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:55 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:55 PM
    1) the check in inventory is important. OK, if the tenants don't question your proposed deductions (" yes we poured paint on the carpet") there's no problem. But if they say "That paint stain was there when we moved in", or "carpet? What carpet? There was no carpet- we bought that carpet." then your inventory becomes important evidence.

    Next time use a qualified AIIC Inventory Clerk.

    2) Geting a couple of competitive written quotes is advisable before you start work.

    3) Remember 'betterment'. If the carpet is now 8 years old (for example), it's probably near the end of its life anyway. A brand new carpet paid by the tenants would leave you better off than if they'd not caused damage & just left you an 8 year old carpet.

    You can claim perhaps 2/10ths of the replacement value (assuming a 10 year lifespan)
    Originally posted by G_M
    Thanks for your feedback. It's a new build and the whole place is only 2 years old. We've lived there 8 months and the tenants 12 so I feel we should have a case. The tenants have also confirmed receipt of the check out report and haven't disagreed with my evidence.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 10:11 PM
    • 41,890 Posts
    • 48,474 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:11 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:11 PM
    Fair point. You obviously have clear evidence of the age of the property and its contents (though perhaps not of the existance of the carpet when the tenancy started?)
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Jul 17, 6:07 AM
    • 16,055 Posts
    • 39,928 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 6:07 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 6:07 AM
    As the landlord the onus is on you to prove any deductions are reasonable and by the sounds of things the check-in inventory is a bit flimsy.
    If the check-in states that the house was in good condition bare item a, b and c and both party agree to it, then that's what the ADR will use as a starting point and it would be up to the tenants to prove that it wasn't in good condition.

    Before pictures always help, but agreeing that everything in the house is in good condition is fine especially when the house is a new build anyway.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 11th Jul 17, 10:07 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:07 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:07 AM
    Looking for some advice. We have had tenants in our house for the last 12 months. Last weekend we received the keys back and did a final inspection. During the inspection we noted severe damage to our carpets (paint spills, burns, pen), walls (pen, nail varnish etc on every wall) and they've nailed our handmade blinds to the walls to make them black out. - agree, all damage not wear&tear.
    Get dated pictures of the damage before you do the work, and a couple of reasonable quotes to rectify. You would be entitled to the value of a 2 year old replacement (not new) or 8 tenths of the cost of new items wiht a 10 year lifespan.


    There was a basic inventory taken at the start of the tenancy in the form of emails identifying items which we knew about and that overall the house was in good condition. This was agreed by all parties. - check what if anything this says about the specific areas of damage, and look for any pictures of the general condition even if the date is earlier (e.g. for proof there was infact a
    carpet). Next time do a full inventory listing every item and its condition, showing photos.


    I produced a 'Final Inspectiom Report' outlining the situation and photo evidence. I stated that we will be retaining the deposit (£700) (it's stored in MyDepositScotland) and also we'll be looking for funds to cover additional damages out with the deposit as per the tenancy agreement. Their initial response has been negative and they're disputing. Provide a breakdown of the damages and the costs, and ask them what they agree with in writing. Then focus on the rest and decide whether the difference is worth your time fighting. IF yes, you may need to write a letter before action and file a money claim online for the extra funds,
    providing all your evidence. If not, agree a full & final settlement in writing and get the money transferred between you.


    My question is...can we get any contractor to do the work as long as we have a clear invoice for works carried out and then ask for the additional money from the tenants? Or do I need to get the tenants to accept before any works are carried out?
    - Make sure you have good pictures evidencing the problem areas and a couple of reasonable quotes to rectify the damage (materials + labour). However you can start the work before it is agreed with the tenants. If you can't agree and the deposit scheme / court judge disagree with you, you may not be awarded the money. Conversely, even if you are awarded damages, you don't have to do the repairs.


    Another option is pay our insurance excess, would the tenants be liable for this? - yes, if it is less than the cost of the repair you would otherwise be due.

    I have landlord insurance and accidental damage cover which most of this will cover but have been advised £200 excess per incident (one incident being mark on carpet, another being mark on wall, estimate of total excess is £1500).

    Clause in tenancy agreement 'The deposit shall be held by the Landlord or Landlords Agent to meet any claims against the Tenants in respect of any damage to the furnishings or fabric of the Property and any outstanding electricity, gas or telephone charges and any other sums including rental payments due by the Tenants arising from this Lease. In the event that the total sum so owed by the Tenants
    exceeds the amount of the deposit the excess shall be paid by the Tenants to the Landlord or Landlords Agent within seven days of the date on which the Tenants receive intimation of such excess.'
    Originally posted by FraserGreen
    You would be due the lower of
    a) cost of new replacement + fitting (scaled down by the remaining lifespan of a 2 year old item)
    b) cost of a second hand replacement + fitting
    c) insurance excess if you choose to claim (don't have to)
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