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  • FIRST POST
    • icecreamcastle
    • By icecreamcastle 10th Jul 17, 8:23 PM
    • 40Posts
    • 7Thanks
    icecreamcastle
    Help please!...Our business has been conned!
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:23 PM
    Help please!...Our business has been conned! 10th Jul 17 at 8:23 PM
    Hello,

    Thank you in advance for your time and any help - hopefully, this is the correct forum to post in.

    We hired a distribution company to distribute our publication for the last 2 months. We have since discovered, they have not delivered any of them! We have ample of evidence in both the failure to do the work and the work they agreed to undertake.

    Thankfully, we paid via PayPal and PayPal have been extremely helpful and it looks extremely promising we will receive the distribution costs back.

    However, we are still around £8000 out of pocket due to our print costs (we haven't received our publications back) and we have also lost a lot of custom due to the failure to deliver.

    My questions are:

    1. Are our missing publications now classed as stolen items? They went straight from our printers to the distributor. We paid for and own the publication. In law, is this theft?

    2. If yes, do we report this to the police or somebody else?

    3. What is the best course of action to take or who do we contact in regards to attempting to recoup our print expenses and loss of earnings?

    Thank you once again for your time and help. I've tried to keep this first post as brief as possible but can fill in more details if required.
Page 1
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 10th Jul 17, 8:41 PM
    • 8,953 Posts
    • 16,128 Thanks
    Pennywise
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:41 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:41 PM
    You need to engage a solicitor as this is a commercial/business contractual issue. Police won't be involved as it's not theft - you have them the material.
    • MrJones1
    • By MrJones1 10th Jul 17, 8:43 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    MrJones1
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:43 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:43 PM
    You had a contract with a distribution company to distribute your publications. But it has later turned out that they have breached the contract by not delivering the publications. You have the evidence to prove this.

    There is a legal route that you can take and you seem to have the upper hand with the evidence you have. You will at least be able to get the money you paid them for the distribution and the print cost. Loss of profit is also something you could claim.

    What you need to do now is to get in touch with a solicitor. Sometimes it's enough with them sending letters to the distribution company. Sometimes the case will have to go to court. Since this case is about several thousands of pounds, I cannot see any reason why you shouldn't take this case further.
    • icecreamcastle
    • By icecreamcastle 10th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    icecreamcastle
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    Many thanks for your replies. Yes, we did think seeing a solicitor was probably the next step. We are only a small company, so this is a big chunk of money we have currently lost.

    Loss of earnings could be slightly more difficult to give an exact figure (although we have definitely lost custom) but we know the exact print costs lost.

    Basically, this has hit us hard so we'd like to move as quickly as possible taking the correct actions. We also believe the distribution company is a 'phoenix', so we need to act fast if we have any chance of recouping our losses.

    Thank you once again for all your help. I'm guessing we should notify trading standards too?
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 11th Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    • 15,175 Posts
    • 10,973 Thanks
    hollydays
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Jul 17, 7:51 AM
    You could ring action fraud and talk to them about corporate fraud
    http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-corporate%20fraud

    Link about a company
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20934991
    Last edited by hollydays; 11-07-2017 at 8:05 AM.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 17, 9:17 AM
    • 733 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 9:17 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 9:17 AM
    You could ring action fraud and talk to them about corporate fraud
    http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-corporate%20fraud

    Link about a company
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20934991
    Originally posted by hollydays
    If you actually knew anything about action fraud you wouldn't have posted that.
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 11th Jul 17, 10:21 AM
    • 4,040 Posts
    • 1,479 Thanks
    bengalknights
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:21 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:21 AM
    As already stated you need a solicitor (ideally one that specialises in corporate law)

    After this they can judge the seriousness and to what compensation should be due.
    • MrJones1
    • By MrJones1 11th Jul 17, 10:45 AM
    • 116 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    MrJones1
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:45 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 17, 10:45 AM
    To give you an idea of how to measure the loss of earnings. Just as you say it can be slightly difficult
    to give an exact figure. However, you could compare your sales between the period you wanted the
    fliers to be distributed this year and same period last year. If there is a reduction in sales, you can
    make an educated guess and conclude that the distribution company's breach of the contract caused
    this.

    Once again, I would like to stress that it's important that you get in touch with a solicitor. I don't want
    to see your case fail, because you have lost several thousands of pounds.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • 27,810 Posts
    • 70,645 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    We hired a distribution company to distribute our publication for the last 2 months. We have since discovered, they have not delivered any of them!

    However, we are still around £8000 out of pocket due to our print costs (we haven't received our publications back)
    Originally posted by icecreamcastle
    Have you asked for the publications back?
    • icecreamcastle
    • By icecreamcastle 11th Jul 17, 11:38 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    icecreamcastle
    Yes Mojisola, we have asked for the publications back (obviously, they are out of date now too). We have been told many contradicting lies but the company claims they don't have them.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 11th Jul 17, 12:40 PM
    • 616 Posts
    • 399 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Yes Mojisola, we have asked for the publications back (obviously, they are out of date now too). We have been told many contradicting lies but the company claims they don't have them.
    Originally posted by icecreamcastle

    Have they explained why they don't have them?
    • MrJones1
    • By MrJones1 11th Jul 17, 1:03 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    MrJones1
    Have they explained why they don't have them?
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    The distribution company has failed to undertake the agreed work, which is to distribute the flyers on OP's behalf. OP has evidence of this. As there is a dispute, the distribution company will make it convenient for themselves and claim that they have distributed the flyers. This will be the obvious answer to why they don't have them.
    • paddyrg
    • By paddyrg 11th Jul 17, 3:03 PM
    • 13,002 Posts
    • 11,075 Thanks
    paddyrg
    Just a tip for the future - salt the list - have a couple of dozen addresses around the delivery area who will report back to you. Tell the distribution company that the list is salted and that you have an unknown (to them) number of addresses of friends and family in the area looking out for delivery... Helps them to stay honest
    • icecreamcastle
    • By icecreamcastle 11th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    icecreamcastle
    Yes, MrJones1 is correct. They claim they don't have the publications as they have 'delivered' them, although we know 100% they haven't delivered them to the locations they were instructed and paid to do.

    Although their 'story' has changed repeatedly once it has been proven to be a lie, at times they have claimed our publication has been delivered to areas 10's of miles away from where it was instructed to. Even if this was true (which we are positive it isn't), the areas they claim are completely meaningless and worthless to our work.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 11th Jul 17, 4:31 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    angryparcel
    you know these distribution companies employ students to deliver a lot of their publications and sometimes rather than deliver them they end up like this

    • MrJones1
    • By MrJones1 11th Jul 17, 6:59 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    MrJones1
    Yes, MrJones1 is correct. They claim they don't have the publications as they have 'delivered' them, although we know 100% they haven't delivered them to the locations they were instructed and paid to do.

    Although their 'story' has changed repeatedly once it has been proven to be a lie, at times they have claimed our publication has been delivered to areas 10's of miles away from where it was instructed to. Even if this was true (which we are positive it isn't), the areas they claim are completely meaningless and worthless to our work.
    Originally posted by icecreamcastle
    If they change their story repeatedly, that's an indication that they are telling lies. I hope you have their different stories in writing. For example emails. Also their claims that the publications have been delivered to areas further away than the areas they were instructed to deliver to, speak against them. They confirm that they have breached the contract.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 12th Jul 17, 10:11 AM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,159 Thanks
    Guest101
    Hello,

    Thank you in advance for your time and any help - hopefully, this is the correct forum to post in.

    We hired a distribution company to distribute our publication for the last 2 months. We have since discovered, they have not delivered any of them! We have ample of evidence in both the failure to do the work and the work they agreed to undertake.

    Thankfully, we paid via PayPal and PayPal have been extremely helpful and it looks extremely promising we will receive the distribution costs back.

    However, we are still around £8000 out of pocket due to our print costs (we haven't received our publications back) and we have also lost a lot of custom due to the failure to deliver.

    My questions are:

    1. Are our missing publications now classed as stolen items? They went straight from our printers to the distributor. We paid for and own the publication. In law, is this theft?

    2. If yes, do we report this to the police or somebody else?

    3. What is the best course of action to take or who do we contact in regards to attempting to recoup our print expenses and loss of earnings?

    Thank you once again for your time and help. I've tried to keep this first post as brief as possible but can fill in more details if required.
    Originally posted by icecreamcastle
    This is definitely a civil matter. You would need to issue pre action letter and claim the money via the courts if they fail to pay
    • icecreamcastle
    • By icecreamcastle 13th Jul 17, 7:04 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    icecreamcastle
    Thanks again for all your replies. Lol, Angryparcel. Thankfully those aren't our publications but it would have been better exposure than we and or clients have received.

    MrJones1, yes, we have a lot of their lies in their emails. Some lies were told via the telephone but we have enough evidence via email to prove they are untrustworthy and stories constantly contradict themselves.

    Many thanks Guest101, we will follow your advice.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 13th Jul 17, 7:28 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    angryparcel
    Lol, Angryparcel. Thankfully those aren't our publications but it would have been better exposure than we and or clients have received.
    Originally posted by icecreamcastle
    Yes along with a heavy fine for fly tipping as the company who these leaflets belonged too, which were all removed by the local authority
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