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  • FIRST POST
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 10th Jul 17, 7:41 PM
    • 230Posts
    • 151Thanks
    rjwr
    Amenity Land
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:41 PM
    Amenity Land 10th Jul 17 at 7:41 PM
    Hi all,

    i have the opportunity to purchase a piece of land, roughly an acre in size. The land is amenity land and is not currently fenced in.

    I'm happy for the local population to continue using the land if they currently are, but i would like to fence the perimeter and put a gate on the land, not locked, but the purpose is so my dogs can be let off without them running away.

    anyone with experience with thi sort of land purchase?
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
Page 1
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 10th Jul 17, 7:51 PM
    • 1,698 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:51 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:51 PM
    Don't do it. It sounds like a nightmare. Even if it's in a "nice" place the gates and fences will be vandalised withing days if all and sundry are using the land.

    If it's currently free for everybody to use and you can't stop it being free for everybody to use, what would you be gaining by owning it?
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 10th Jul 17, 7:56 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    rjwr
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:56 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:56 PM
    the ability to fence it in so i can let my huskies off the lead. that is the only purpose.

    The village has 5/6 houses, so the population that would potentially use it, bare in mind the vast wood lands surrounding it would be 10-20 people
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
    • Momlovessavingmoney
    • By Momlovessavingmoney 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    Momlovessavingmoney
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    Don't do it. It sounds like a nightmare. Even if it's in a "nice" place the gates and fences will be vandalised withing days if all and sundry are using the land.

    If it's currently free for everybody to use and you can't stop it being free for everybody to use, what would you be gaining by owning it?
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser

    Exactly
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 10th Jul 17, 8:15 PM
    • 27,804 Posts
    • 70,619 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:15 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:15 PM
    the ability to fence it in so i can let my huskies off the lead. that is the only purpose.

    The village has 5/6 houses, so the population that would potentially use it, bare in mind the vast wood lands surrounding it would be 10-20 people
    Originally posted by rjwr
    Do the neighbours use it for picnics or letting the children run around?

    Would you get complaints about the dog mess? It's not always easy to keep track of dogs pooping if they're running free.
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 10th Jul 17, 8:23 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    rjwr
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:23 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:23 PM
    i don't fully know, it is in the middle of the country. there are no benches or seating of any sort, the grass is very long but there is a circular path that shows a small amount of usage, not enough to make stop the grass growing just flattens it.

    i'm happy to buy it, but im trying to educate myself if im able to fence it as otherwise its just a piece of land that changes ownership and we benefit in no shape or form
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 10th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    • 965 Posts
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    teneighty
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:31 PM
    If it is classed as public amenity land you could well need planning permission to fence it.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 10th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    • 2,252 Posts
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    glasgowdan
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    How would you cope with an injury lawsuit if someone using the land broke their ankle and couldn't work for 6 months and came at you with professional lawyers looking for loss of earnings and costs?
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    • 4,802 Posts
    • 4,440 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
    "Amenity land" doesn't necessarily imply that it is public land, or that the public should have access to it.

    For example, it might be providing 'visual amenity' - i.e. its presence makes the area look nice.

    You'll probably need planning consent to fence the land. It might be refused, for example, if it reduces 'visual amenity' - i.e. a fence would make the area look ugly.

    Have a discussion with the local planning department before buying.
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 10th Jul 17, 9:01 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    rjwr
    thank you all for the advice. I have emailed the planning department today as they do not accept calls for planning questions. They may also charge for the advice which is small fry compared to a law suit
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Jul 17, 9:12 PM
    • 4,802 Posts
    • 4,440 Thanks
    eddddy
    thank you all for the advice. I have emailed the planning department today as they do not accept calls for planning questions. They may also charge for the advice which is small fry compared to a law suit
    Originally posted by rjwr
    If you put up a fence, there wouldn't be a law suit as such.

    If somebody complained to the planning department, they might ask you to apply for retrospective planning consent.

    If you failed to apply, or your application was refused, you'd then get an enforcement notice.

    If you then took down the fence, that would be the end of it.

    Although perhaps some of the local residents would look at you very sternly and tut, and talk about you at coffee mornings, because you broke the rules.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 10th Jul 17, 9:31 PM
    • 1,698 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I'm really not getting this. Do you live next to it? If it's in the middle of nowhere, why can't you let your dogs off the lead anywhere there or in the acres of woodland? If you are happy for people to use the land when your dogs are on it, it can't be because your dogs are dangerous. Surely it would be easier just to train your dogs to come back when you call them.
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 14th Jul 17, 10:44 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    rjwr
    I'm really not getting this. Do you live next to it? If it's in the middle of nowhere, why can't you let your dogs off the lead anywhere there or in the acres of woodland? If you are happy for people to use the land when your dogs are on it, it can't be because your dogs are dangerous. Surely it would be easier just to train your dogs to come back when you call them.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Its in the middle of nowhere.

    You may want to cast your eye over this:
    http://sibesandsleddogs.org.uk/why-cant-huskies-go-offlead/

    Siberian Husky's cannot EVER be let off the lead. Unless you want your dog to be shot or run over. They do not have recall. No amount of training or similar will make these amazing animals come back.

    They need a minimum of a 6ft fence, with preferably a double gate.


    in case you don't want to read it:

    "This is one of the constant questions raised about Siberian Huskies.

    You would think it would be enough that: every responsible Siberian Husky owner will tell you that it is not safe to let a Siberian Husky off lead in an unenclosed area, every ethical Siberian Husky Breeder will tell you that it is not safe to let a Siberian Husky off lead in an unenclosed area, every single Siberian Husky rescue organisation IN THE WORLD will tell you that it is not safe to let a Siberian Husky off lead in an unenclosed area; and that every single Siberian Husky Club IN THE WORLD will tell you exactly the same thing.

    Now these people and organisations don’t take this line for fun, or to “big up” the wild nature of their dogs, or to try to keep the breed exclusive. They take it because it accurately reflects the bitter experience of thousands of owners worldwide over a long period of time.

    However, this obviously is not enough because there are still a steady stream of people who just don’t believe this unanimous and ubiquitous message. "
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Jul 17, 1:30 AM
    • 22,596 Posts
    • 87,450 Thanks
    Davesnave

    However, this obviously is not enough because there are still a steady stream of people who just don’t believe this unanimous and ubiquitous message. "
    Originally posted by rjwr
    I think it's more likely that they just haven't ever heard it.

    'Amenity land' is the way agents describe rough, uncultivated, largely unfarmed plots of land. As this doesn't mean that it's some kind of public or visual amenity, you'll probably be OK fencing it against deer.

    The only people you are likely to offend slightly are those who go through the land to reach somewhere else on their walks, but if there are alternative routes, that's no great inconvenience.

    If there are no public rights of way involved, I don't see many problems arising, beyond those any of us with land in the countryside have. If people frequently walk there, just have your insurance sorted to cover third party injury. Companies like NFU Mutual do it.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 15th Jul 17, 10:49 AM
    • 170 Posts
    • 237 Thanks
    ProDave
    So you need a 6ft fence around this land?

    You would be better off looking for a small field of agricultural land. Cut it twice a years for silage and it's still agricultural, even if you let you dogs run loose from time to time. And it's a "stock proof" fence so no need for PP on agricultural land.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Jul 17, 12:46 PM
    • 29,123 Posts
    • 17,417 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Go to the local planning portal and see if their us any history.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 15th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 2,974 Posts
    • 3,644 Thanks
    bouicca21
    Even if you fence it you could leave the gate or gates open when the dogs aren't running free.

    In my corner of the world there used to be someone with 3 sibs who were used to pull a wheelchair. I was never quite sure whether the occupant of the wheelchair really was disabled or was just imaginative enough to turn a bit of suburban London into the arctic in her mind.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 15th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 1,698 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Fair enough; if other people have access how are you going to deal with them opening the gate while your dogs are running loose and letting them out?
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Jul 17, 3:43 PM
    • 22,596 Posts
    • 87,450 Thanks
    Davesnave
    So you need a 6ft fence around this land?

    You would be better off looking for a small field of agricultural land. Cut it twice a years for silage and it's still agricultural, even if you let you dogs run loose from time to time. And it's a "stock proof" fence so no need for PP on agricultural land.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    Wouldn't a pasture field cost a lot more, assuming one could be found that is similarly small? Pony paddocks aren't cheap. And who would want to make an acre of hay or silage, unless they were already cutting very nearby?

    It's a nightmare getting small fields cut in some locations. Maintenance is another issue, or in 10 years you end up with.....'amenity land!'
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 16th Jul 17, 7:47 AM
    • 230 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    rjwr
    heres the land:
    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-67326707.html

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bayton,+Kidderminster/@52.3677134,-2.4171103,221m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487060ed5fe35dcf:0xbfd2f 1107f9a4cab!8m2!3d52.356304!4d-2.45013


    the field does not lead to anywhere. The only thing you can do is walk into it and walk out of it. Its not used as a point of access. As you can see by the map, surrounded by woodlands and other green
    My DFD: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5641837
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