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  • FIRST POST
    • woeestme
    • By woeestme 10th Jul 17, 3:57 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    woeestme
    Penalty Charge for mistake on Dental claim form
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:57 PM
    Penalty Charge for mistake on Dental claim form 10th Jul 17 at 3:57 PM
    Hello, I'm currently on ESA. I recently went to the dentist and thought I was eligible for subsidised treatment. I wasn't sure which ESA I was on and mistakenly put 'income based' on the form whereas I'm actually on 'contribution based ESA', which doesn't entitle me to NHS treatment.

    Anyway, in addition to the dental costs which I told them I would pay, the NHS Business Services Authority have given me a penalty charge of £100, which I'm not allowed to contest legally. If I don't pay it, it'll be left to a debt collection agency to chase me for the money.

    According to the NHS Business Services Authority, because I signed the declaration at the dentist, I'm not entitled to contest.

    On the letter it states this is a 'civil penalty' and that ignorance on the issue is not a defence.

    I'm guessing this is some sort of Tory/New Labour policy to extort money from those in the lowest level in society.

    I'm trying to understand what legal authority they have to impose this penalty on me? Somebody in the NHS Business Services Authority has decided this is a useful way of collecting money off people.

    Anyway, do I have any recourse here?
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 10th Jul 17, 4:08 PM
    • 4,560 Posts
    • 9,181 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:08 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:08 PM
    Basically, you lied and got free treatment. If there was nothing to 'put people off' then e veryone would give it a go.

    It's not extortion. It is a fine for lying. You are responsible for knowing what benefit you are claiming.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 10th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
    • 489 Posts
    • 753 Thanks
    parkrunner
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
    I'm guessing this is some sort of Tory/New Labour policy to extort money from those in the lowest level in society.
    Originally posted by woeestme
    Errr no, it's to stop people trying to obtain free services by fraud.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 10th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    • 1,320 Posts
    • 2,836 Thanks
    Londonsu
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    Hello, I'm currently on ESA. I recently went to the dentist and thought I was eligible for subsidised treatment. I wasn't sure which ESA I was on and mistakenly put 'income based' on the form whereas I'm actually on 'contribution based ESA', which doesn't entitle me to NHS treatment.

    Anyway, in addition to the dental costs which I told them I would pay, the NHS Business Services Authority have given me a penalty charge of £100, which I'm not allowed to contest legally. If I don't pay it, it'll be left to a debt collection agency to chase me for the money.

    According to the NHS Business Services Authority, because I signed the declaration at the dentist, I'm not entitled to contest.

    On the letter it states this is a 'civil penalty' and that ignorance on the issue is not a defence.

    I'm guessing this is some sort of Tory/New Labour policy to extort money from those in the lowest level in society.

    I'm trying to understand what legal authority they have to impose this penalty on me? Somebody in the NHS Business Services Authority has decided this is a useful way of collecting money off people.

    Anyway, do I have any recourse here?
    Originally posted by woeestme

    That would be the National Health Service (Penalty Charge) Regulations 1999 and yes you have to pay



    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 10th Jul 17, 8:01 PM
    • 8,953 Posts
    • 16,127 Thanks
    Pennywise
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:01 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:01 PM
    That would be the National Health Service (Penalty Charge) Regulations 1999 and yes you have to pay



    Originally posted by Londonsu
    Note the year, 1999 - so nothing to do with the evil Tories!
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • 823 Posts
    • 1,535 Thanks
    tomtom256
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:11 PM
    Ignorance is also not a lawful defence for many other fraud and non-fraud offences.

    Did you really not understand what you were signing to say or did you just not read the lawful declaration?
    • dippy3103
    • By dippy3103 10th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    • 1,672 Posts
    • 2,527 Thanks
    dippy3103
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    No.. did you not read the declaration before you signed it?
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 10th Jul 17, 8:37 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 370 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:37 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:37 PM
    Think of it this way. Next time you have to complete a similar form, the minute it takes you to work out the correct answer, will "earn" you £100 ; that's £6k / hour. I don't think anyone posting on this forum earns that much.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 11th Jul 17, 5:27 AM
    • 1,320 Posts
    • 2,836 Thanks
    Londonsu
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 5:27 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 5:27 AM
    Just to be clear op this is what you signed
    https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2017-04/20160209_PR_Proof_SAMPLE.pdf


    It is very very clear that its your responsibility to ensure you have the correct exemption and that you will be fined if claiming 'incorrectly'
    • dippy3103
    • By dippy3103 11th Jul 17, 7:22 AM
    • 1,672 Posts
    • 2,527 Thanks
    dippy3103
    It does feel tough if it's a genuine mistake.. my speed crept over 30 a few years ago and sadly a mobile camera was there to record the event - I was doing 36. Fact is I should have taken more care and had to suck it up as at the end of the day I committed the offence. Your situation is similar..
    • woeestme
    • By woeestme 11th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    woeestme
    Wow, gatekeepers for the system out in force here.

    I could give a long answer explaining the illegality of the "banking and legal system" based on natural and common law but the post would just get deleted.

    Liverpool University did a study the last time the Govt squeezed the poor on ESA: one person in a coma was found fit to work, and 150 people committed suicide directly as a result of the Govt actions. The question is can the Govt be sued for malpractice given the results of the study?

    Doubtless you gatekeepers will come out in force again claiming everyone on ESA is lazy etc.

    Oh yes, I forgot, I'm now a customer and no longer a citizen in Corporation Britain.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 11th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 933 Posts
    • 2,046 Thanks
    IAmWales
    Wow, gatekeepers for the system out in force here.

    I could give a long answer explaining the illegality of the "banking and legal system" based on natural and common law but the post would just get deleted.

    Liverpool University did a study the last time the Govt squeezed the poor on ESA: one person in a coma was found fit to work, and 150 people committed suicide directly as a result of the Govt actions. The question is can the Govt be sued for malpractice given the results of the study?

    Doubtless you gatekeepers will come out in force again claiming everyone on ESA is lazy etc.

    Oh yes, I forgot, I'm now a customer and no longer a citizen in Corporation Britain.
    Originally posted by woeestme
    All of which is irrelevant to your failure to pay a prescription charge!
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 11th Jul 17, 2:04 PM
    • 4,560 Posts
    • 9,181 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Wow, gatekeepers for the system out in force here.

    I could give a long answer explaining the illegality of the "banking and legal system" based on natural and common law but the post would just get deleted.

    Liverpool University did a study the last time the Govt squeezed the poor on ESA: one person in a coma was found fit to work, and 150 people committed suicide directly as a result of the Govt actions. The question is can the Govt be sued for malpractice given the results of the study?

    Doubtless you gatekeepers will come out in force again claiming everyone on ESA is lazy etc.

    Oh yes, I forgot, I'm now a customer and no longer a citizen in Corporation Britain.
    Originally posted by woeestme
    It's a shame you didn't put this amount of research and effort into finding out whether or not you were entitled to a free prescription...
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 11th Jul 17, 2:04 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,153 Thanks
    Guest101
    Hello, I'm currently on ESA. I recently went to the dentist and thought I was eligible for subsidised treatment. I wasn't sure which ESA I was on and mistakenly put 'income based' on the form whereas I'm actually on 'contribution based ESA', which doesn't entitle me to NHS treatment.

    Anyway, in addition to the dental costs which I told them I would pay, the NHS Business Services Authority have given me a penalty charge of £100, which I'm not allowed to contest legally. If I don't pay it, it'll be left to a debt collection agency to chase me for the money.

    According to the NHS Business Services Authority, because I signed the declaration at the dentist, I'm not entitled to contest.

    On the letter it states this is a 'civil penalty' and that ignorance on the issue is not a defence.

    I'm guessing this is some sort of Tory/New Labour policy to extort money from those in the lowest level in society.

    I'm trying to understand what legal authority they have to impose this penalty on me? Somebody in the NHS Business Services Authority has decided this is a useful way of collecting money off people.

    Anyway, do I have any recourse here?
    Originally posted by woeestme


    Well this will eventually go to court where you can contest it. But you wont win.


    you claimed free treatment when you weren't entitled to it.
    • woeestme
    • By woeestme 11th Jul 17, 2:04 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    woeestme
    All of which is irrelevant to your failure to pay a prescription charge!
    So the evidence I've presented in no way relates to this cynical penalty charge, which exploits the fact that many people will be confused by the terminology of contribution or income based ESA.

    Your statement completely ignores the inconvenient truths...a bit like the gaslighting MSM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 11th Jul 17, 2:05 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,153 Thanks
    Guest101
    Wow, gatekeepers for the system out in force here.

    I could give a long answer explaining the illegality of the "banking and legal system" based on natural and common law but the post would just get deleted.

    Liverpool University did a study the last time the Govt squeezed the poor on ESA: one person in a coma was found fit to work, and 150 people committed suicide directly as a result of the Govt actions. The question is can the Govt be sued for malpractice given the results of the study?

    Doubtless you gatekeepers will come out in force again claiming everyone on ESA is lazy etc.

    Oh yes, I forgot, I'm now a customer and no longer a citizen in Corporation Britain.
    Originally posted by woeestme


    FMOTL - what a load of rubbish.
    • woeestme
    • By woeestme 11th Jul 17, 2:08 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    woeestme
    The bottom line is that the NHS Business Services Authority does not have a legal right to impose this penalty charge based on their manipulation of the legal person.

    And where does the penalty charge money go? Back into improving the NHS? Or a private company?

    Why am I paying a penalty charge to a private company which has no interest in sustaining the NHS?
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 11th Jul 17, 2:10 PM
    • 933 Posts
    • 2,046 Thanks
    IAmWales
    So the evidence I've presented in no way relates to this cynical penalty charge, which exploits the fact that many people will be confused by the terminology of contribution or income based ESA.

    Your statement completely ignores the inconvenient truths...a bit like the gaslighting MSM.
    Originally posted by woeestme
    What is confusing about the terminology? They are very clear to me and the thousands of others who collect their prescriptions without a problem.

    The penalty does not "exploit" those on benefits, it punishes those that choose to avoid paying. Given how stretched the NHS is, this can only be a good thing.

    The money goes back into the NHS. No private company is involved in the process, assuming people pay up when they should.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 11th Jul 17, 2:10 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,153 Thanks
    Guest101
    The bottom line is that the NHS Business Services Authority does not have a legal right to impose this penalty charge based on their manipulation of the legal person.

    And where does the penalty charge money go? Back into improving the NHS? Or a private company?

    Why am I paying a penalty charge to a private company which has no interest in sustaining the NHS?
    Originally posted by woeestme
    NHS BSA are not a private company. Yes they do have the power to impose this, if you fail to pay you'll be taken to court.
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 11th Jul 17, 2:12 PM
    • 489 Posts
    • 753 Thanks
    parkrunner
    The bottom line is that the NHS Business Services Authority does not have a legal right to impose this penalty charge based on their manipulation of the legal person.

    And where does the penalty charge money go? Back into improving the NHS? Or a private company?

    Why am I paying a penalty charge to a private company which has no interest in sustaining the NHS?
    Originally posted by woeestme
    Well don't pay it then.
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