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  • FIRST POST
    • waggers1979
    • By waggers1979 10th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    • 4Posts
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    waggers1979
    DVLA fine from ANPR camera - wasn't me, cloned plates. Please help
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    DVLA fine from ANPR camera - wasn't me, cloned plates. Please help 10th Jul 17 at 3:13 PM
    Hi - I hope someone can help as I can't seem to find anything on the internet.

    Last month I got a 'notice of enforcement' from a bailiff company called the Marston Group. I had no idea what this was and they were demanding over £450 for a fine that had been to court. I haven't had any documentation for a fine nor a court summons so naturally I became massively worried and scared. I rang them and asked what this was for. They were quite amused but were not very helpful at all - I imagine they get the innocent act quite a lot. They wouldn't tell me what this was for other than a fine from Chester Magistrates Court. Utterly confused I hung up and tried to contact the court with no avail and also emailed. I rang the bailiff company back and this time got a person that did tell me what the fine was for. It was for driving with no insurance on an old car that I owned back in April 2016. I had bought a new car in Jan that year, the vehicle that was photographed driving was parked on a private car park at the time and unable to be driven as the battery was flat and it had 2 flat tyres. I was waiting for it to be taken and scrapped (which it was later that month).
    The customer service rep at the Marston Group told me that there would be someone round my house to take my possessions if I did not pay a portion of the fine. I paid £50 to calm the situation.
    I made a police complaint the same day as it would seem that the plates have been cloned (the car is still being driven according to the DVLA website and taxed!) and they are investigating it and also there is a marker out on the car to stop and check the chassis.
    I have copied the Marston Group into all correspondence with the court and police so they are aware. I have also asked for a refund of my £50 that I was bullied into paying.
    I am needing to know if I am sorting this properly.
    I can't seem to find who to contact at the DVLA regarding the camera and fine as I need to contest this.
    Also how do i get this removed from my driving file?
    Plus how do I go through the courts to remove this conviction?
    Can i stop this horrendous Marston Group from chasing me for something I am not guilty of?
    Can I get my £50 back?

    Thanks for reading.. I understand it may be confusing (I am very dyslexic) and can answer questions

    Waggers
Page 1
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 10th Jul 17, 3:20 PM
    • 3,034 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:20 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:20 PM
    Hang on .. are MG chasing you with regards to a fine from the DVLA, or with regards to Parking Charge Notice issued for an overstay at a private car park?

    Was the court claim from a Magistrates Court or a County Court? If the latter then MG are chasing in regards to small claims judgment. As such the amount is too low for HCEO/bailiff action and they won't be able to take away any goods.

    You need to get more details about this.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 10th Jul 17, 3:53 PM
    • 1,282 Posts
    • 583 Thanks
    Rover Driver
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:53 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 3:53 PM
    It was for driving with no insurance on an old car that I owned back in April 2016. I had bought a new car in Jan that year, the vehicle that was photographed driving was parked on a private car park at the time and unable to be driven as the battery was flat and it had 2 flat tyres. I was waiting for it to be taken and scrapped (which it was later that month).
    Originally posted by waggers1979
    If it is a DVLA matter, it is more likely to be the offence of being the keeper of a vehicle that does not comply with the insurance requirement - s.144A, Road Traffic Act 1988.

    Using a vehicle without insurance - s.143, Road Traffic Act 1988 is a police matter.

    Did you get the acknowledgement letter from the DVLA when you scrapped the vehicle?
    • waggers1979
    • By waggers1979 10th Jul 17, 4:11 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    waggers1979
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:11 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:11 PM
    Hi thanks for getting back to me

    Apparently it was a roadside unmanned ANPR camera and the fine was issued for no insurance. I never received any documentation from the DVLA for it. It has been to Chester Magistrates Court without my knowledge and a conviction placed against me for no insurance. The police say its nothing to do with them as its a straight fine from the DVLA and said this has happened a lot with these cameras. They also said its a civil matter and could be a long drawn out one. The police are investigating the crime of cloning the plates as it was impossible to have been me driving this particular car as it was unable to be driven.
    I got an acknowledgment of scrapping from the DVLA but this incident happened prior.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 10th Jul 17, 4:38 PM
    • 2,340 Posts
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    TadleyBaggie
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:38 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 4:38 PM
    Cloned plates are extremely rare, it's more likely to be a simple misread. We see plenty of the latter on Pepipoo, very few of the former.
    • waggers1979
    • By waggers1979 10th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    waggers1979
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    I didn't know about Pepipoo - thanks for flagging that up The police seem to be taking it quite seriously though as the car is still being used to this day.
    I just need to know how to go about fighting this and who to contact.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 10th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    • 2,120 Posts
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    Car 54
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    OP, the first thing you should do is contact the court and arrange to make a Statutory Declaration, which will set the conviction aside and get the bailiffs off your back. This has to be done within 21 days (as far as I remember) from when you became aware.

    Is there any obvious reason why you didn't receive a summons? Change of address? Failure to update the V5C?

    Once you have the details of the charge (which will be brought again), I'd recommend you post on Pepipoo for advice.
    • waggers1979
    • By waggers1979 10th Jul 17, 5:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    waggers1979
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:36 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:36 PM
    i had moved in the November prior and the V5 was changed to new address which is why I am so confused. Plus I had the new V5 so the DVLA definitely changed it - I obviously had to send the slip in re. scrapping. another posted said it might just be a misread and recommended Pepipoo - looking through this site I can see this happens a lot.
    Just looked into Stat Declaration - thank you so much for the advice. i will crack on to that asap.
    I don't suppose you know how I get the DVLA to release a copy of the photograph of the suspected vehicle? Thanks a million
    Last edited by waggers1979; 10-07-2017 at 5:37 PM. Reason: mis spell
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 10th Jul 17, 6:01 PM
    • 25,916 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 6:01 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 6:01 PM
    Definitely sign up with pepipoo.com , DON'T use a hotmail addy they don't work.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • thecoffeehouse204
    • By thecoffeehouse204 10th Jul 17, 6:09 PM
    • 153 Posts
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    thecoffeehouse204
    Are you sure the car was definately scrapped, who came to take it away? Could have possibly been put back on the road and you're still down as the registered keeper.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Jul 17, 6:49 PM
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    AdrianC
    the vehicle that was photographed driving was parked on a private car park at the time and unable to be driven as the battery was flat and it had 2 flat tyres. I was waiting for it to be taken and scrapped (which it was later that month).

    ...it would seem that the plates have been cloned (the car is still being driven according to the DVLA website and taxed!)
    Originally posted by waggers1979
    Sorry, you're saying that your old car was scrapped - but "the clone" is still on the plates... and showing as taxed on DVLA?

    Then your car wasn't scrapped... It was fixed, and is back on the road - DVLA were not notified it was scrapped. People don't drive around in a "clone" having MOTed and taxed "the real one"... The VIN is checked as part of the MOT.

    I presume that whoever now has the real car has it registered in their name - no point in taxing it if paperwork isn't going to turn up anyway... You did sign the V5C over when it was collected, and you did receive confirmation of it being transferred out of your keepership, right?
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 10th Jul 17, 11:41 PM
    • 1,112 Posts
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    littlerock
    Hang on, if the car is fixed and back on the road, and registered in someone's name, how did they do that when the official owner had scrapped it? Whose name and address is it registered in?

    The original owner has been fined for having it on the road without insurance. How could this happen if someone else has it registered in their name?
    Last edited by littlerock; 10-07-2017 at 11:45 PM.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 11th Jul 17, 12:42 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 594 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    How about this scenario :
    1) Villain A clones the OPs car, puts a copy of its number plates on a car of the same model and colour. They drive round with no tax / MOT / insurance.
    2) The OP takes their car off the road, stops paying insurance. Villain A doesn't know this, so gets flashed by the DVLA. Q. As Car 54 says : Why doesn't the OP get the summons ?
    3) OP scraps the car, but Villain B intercepts it, and re-registers it. They have in the meantime stolen ( or claimed insurance for the theft of ) a car which is similar ; and is now a "ringer". A very dodgy MOT station ignores the VIN, or is persuaded to pass the OP's scrap.
    Note that there is no need for the two Villains and cars to be the same. There could now be 2 of them.

    Either way, the car should be of interest to the police. Either it still has no insurance ; or someone has bought the ringer off Villain B, in which case the DVLA should have an address for the new keeper. If DVLA are relying on ANPR, no-one will pull over Villain B ( or his unsuspecting customer ).
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 8:05 AM
    • 14,785 Posts
    • 13,139 Thanks
    AdrianC
    How about this scenario :
    1) Villain A clones the OPs car, puts a copy of its number plates on a car of the same model and colour. They drive round with no tax / MOT / insurance.
    2) The OP takes their car off the road, stops paying insurance. Villain A doesn't know this, so gets flashed by the DVLA. Q. As Car 54 says : Why doesn't the OP get the summons ?
    3) OP scraps the car, but Villain B intercepts it, and re-registers it. They have in the meantime stolen ( or claimed insurance for the theft of ) a car which is similar ; and is now a "ringer". A very dodgy MOT station ignores the VIN, or is persuaded to pass the OP's scrap.
    Note that there is no need for the two Villains and cars to be the same. There could now be 2 of them.

    Either way, the car should be of interest to the police. Either it still has no insurance ; or someone has bought the ringer off Villain B, in which case the DVLA should have an address for the new keeper. If DVLA are relying on ANPR, no-one will pull over Villain B ( or his unsuspecting customer ).
    Originally posted by Geoff1963
    Occam's Razor applies, as ever.

    C. The car wasn't scrapped, but was repaired and put back on the road.

    Hang on, if the car is fixed and back on the road, and registered in someone's name, how did they do that when the official owner had scrapped it? Whose name and address is it registered in?
    Originally posted by littlerock
    The ex-owner, the OP, transferred the V5C into the name of the buyer, who he believed was going to scrap it. They didn't.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 11th Jul 17, 8:42 AM
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    peter_the_piper
    The problem was(sadly) partly of the OP's own making in that he did not follow up the DVLA in May 2016 when it was supposed to have been scrapped. Had he sent in the forms to DVLA all this stress could have been avoided.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 8:52 AM
    • 14,785 Posts
    • 13,139 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The problem was(sadly) partly of the OP's own making in that he did not follow up the DVLA in May 2016 when it was supposed to have been scrapped. Had he sent in the forms to DVLA all this stress could have been avoided.
    Originally posted by peter_the_piper
    For all we know, the car is no longer in the OP's name - it may well have been transferred to the people who collected it at the time. The penalty in question dates back to when the car was in his possession.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 17, 9:24 AM
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    • 557 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    For all we know, the car is no longer in the OP's name - it may well have been transferred to the people who collected it at the time. The penalty in question dates back to when the car was in his possession.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    So the question is, who was driving when it was photographed?
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 11th Jul 17, 9:24 AM
    • 1,112 Posts
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    littlerock
    So AdrianC, are you suggesting the fine for no insurance refers to the period when OP still owned the car and was driving it (it was caught on a roadside camera), before he scrapped it? And it was uninsured at that time. Can OP confirm what dates the fine relates to?
    Last edited by littlerock; 11-07-2017 at 9:28 AM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 17, 9:27 AM
    • 14,785 Posts
    • 13,139 Thanks
    AdrianC
    So you are suggesting the fine for no insurance refers to the period when OP still owned the car and was driving it, before he scrapped it? And it was uninsured at that time. Can OP confirm what dates the fine relates to?
    Originally posted by littlerock
    He says as much in the OP...

    It was for driving with no insurance on an old car that I owned back in April 2016. I had bought a new car in Jan that year, the vehicle that was photographed driving was parked on a private car park at the time and unable to be driven as the battery was flat and it had 2 flat tyres. I was waiting for it to be taken and scrapped (which it was later that month).
    Originally posted by waggers1979
    • littlerock
    • By littlerock 11th Jul 17, 9:29 AM
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    littlerock
    At the time of the fine, April 2016, the OP still owned the car but he believed he had parked in a safe location in an undriveable state? So how does that work? Someone made it road worthy and drove it around? If it was snapped on a road side camera there should be a photo so it should be clear it was his car being driven. As another poster says, who was the driver in the photo.

    Meanwhile in his original post, OP says that it is on the road - so assume it is the same car - and taxed according to DVLC website. Has he looked up the make and model which is taxed with the registration number. The look up asks you to confirm this? So the DVLC still has the original car registered and taxed in his name and address ie never scrapped it? Or is it another car?
    Last edited by littlerock; 11-07-2017 at 10:37 AM.
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