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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 148Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 8
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 6:08 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    So why not just check with HMRC?

    Because quite frankly your agents don't have the authority to tell you this.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Maybe I will try them tomorrow, but it is difficult without being able to get in touch with the agent at all because I don't have any of whatever details or numbers you need for them to identify the tax account, will they give me details if all I have is my name and address? I don't have any tax paperwork at all
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Jul 17, 6:09 PM
    • 15,300 Posts
    • 38,404 Thanks
    elsien
    Beginning to wonder if you're taking the mickey?
    Originally posted by mollycat
    The rest of us have been wondering that since the wolf hybrid made its appearance. You need to catch up!

    So in the space of a few hours the tenants gone from having one dog who might shed a bit of hair and necessitate a carpet clean, to having a wolf-hybrid who is eyeing up the neighbours for dinner and destroying the building from the inside out. (according to the totally reliable and not at all gossipy next door neighbour.)
    And OP can never ever evict them because contracts are lies and words no longer have any meaning.
    Originally posted by fairy lights
    I needed cheering up today. Thank you. ;D
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 6:10 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    You just need your NI number - here's a hint, if you didn't give it to your agent then tax hadn't been paid.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 6:11 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Missing some key words - which shall not be unreasonably witheld.

    Meaning the term may well be unenforceable
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Seems like good news to me, if I haven't promised not to unreasonably withhold consent then why can't I go damn well ahead and be unreasonable!!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 6:13 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    Seems like good news to me, if I haven't promised not to unreasonably withhold consent then why can't I go damn well ahead and be unreasonable!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Because the clause is invalid without that KEY phrase. It's bad news. Stop trying to act up.
    • GrumpyDil
    • By GrumpyDil 10th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    GrumpyDil
    Please tell me this is a windup. Because if not I can see more tears on the horizon
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 10th Jul 17, 6:20 PM
    • 715 Posts
    • 256 Thanks
    sevenhills
    I don't think I would be able to threaten them to report the dog, I can't prove that it's not legal just because it looks strange, I would have to find a way to test its DNA....
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    I believe some councils collect dog poo and test its DNA to find dog owners that are not picking up after their dog. So it could be easy
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 10th Jul 17, 6:30 PM
    • 445 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    SuboJvR
    I believe some councils collect dog poo and test its DNA to find dog owners that are not picking up after their dog. So it could be easy
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Maybe the neighbour would be so kind?
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 10th Jul 17, 6:42 PM
    • 8,291 Posts
    • 27,801 Thanks
    fairy lights
    I'm just waiting for "accidental landlord" and "following a relationship breakdown" and my bingo card will be complete.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 6:57 PM
    • 41,955 Posts
    • 48,568 Thanks
    G_M
    Please tell me this is a windup. Because if not I can see more tears on the horizon
    Originally posted by GrumpyDil
    No tears. Just a clockwork toy.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 7:02 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    You just need your NI number - here's a hint, if you didn't give it to your agent then tax hadn't been paid.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I have no idea what that is so I certainly have not given it to anyone.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    No one is saying that it's right that tenants can do things that you're not happy about or do things that the contract states they shouldn't, but nothing can physically be enforced unless you go to court. This is a lengthy and expensive process, it's one of the things that comes hand in hand with being a landlord.
    .
    Originally posted by LuckyG
    Backing down, walking away! This is not Britain any more.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 17, 7:14 PM
    • 5,369 Posts
    • 4,726 Thanks
    00ec25
    Yes all taxes are deducted before the money even gets into my account, it's about %25, and I have never heard anything from the tax man. Fine by me
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    OK I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that what you write is actually happening

    in that case PLEASE understand what you have said above is dangerous nonsense

    you are no longer living in the UK. You intend to return to the UK in the future.

    your agent is following the law by deducting basic rate tax from the rent they collect. Granted of course you know nothing about tenancy law so I'll say it again - that is the law.

    the law says you MUST submit a tax return. The money deducted by the agent is not the end of the matter, in fact it is the worst outcome for you because HMRC now know you are letting a property, receiving rent, but have not submitted a tax return. You can therefore expect to be fined for non submission when they chase you for it.

    your agents is not an accountant and knows nothing about your tax position. Your agent cannot possibly submit an accurate profit calculation - all they can do (and probably are) is meet the legal requirement imposed on them as your agent, deduct and pay over 20% tax. End of their responsibility, what comes next will be your fault and your problem.

    go and read the non resident landlord scheme rules NOW before it is too late for you to get out of the hole you have dug through letting a property without any idea at all, or willingness to educate yourself first, of what that entails

    https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 17, 7:19 PM
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    00ec25
    I appreciate what you're saying but I don't know why everyone here is apparently such an experienced landlord and yet so defeatist about a tenant blatantly breaking their agreement, if every time things go wrong you just throw your hands up in the air and say 'well I actually can't enforce anything in the contract' ....?
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    you are perfectly entitled to go to court on the grounds that your tenant has breached the contract

    the law you would use restricts your case to being one at the discretion of the court and the courts have repeatedly made it plain that they regard discretionary grounds as not being enough to make then throw a tenant out of the tenant's HOME on what is often a technicality of the contract (or in your case a dog wiff)

    courts do not put people on the street unless there is very good reason to do so, discretionary grounds rarely are
    Last edited by 00ec25; 14-07-2017 at 1:23 AM.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 7:22 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    OK I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that what you write is actually happening

    in that case PLEASE understand what you have said above is dangerous nonsense

    you are no longer living in the UK. You intend to return to the UK in the future.

    your agent is following the law by deducting basic rate tax from the rent they collect. Granted of course you know nothing about tenancy law so I'll say it again - that is the law.

    the law says you MUST submit a tax return. The money deducted by the agent is not the end of the matter, in fact it is the worst outcome for you because HMRC now know you are letting a property, receiving rent, but have not submitted a tax return. You can therefore expect to be fined for non submission when they chase you for it.

    your agents is not an accountant and knows nothing about your tax position. Your agent cannot possibly submit an accurate profit calculation - all they can do (and probably are) is meet the legal requirement imposed on them as your agent, deduct and pay over 20% tax. End of their responsibility, what comes next will be your fault and your problem.

    go and read the non resident landlord scheme rules NOW before it is too late for you to get out of the hole you have dug through letting a property without any idea at all, or willingness to educate yourself first, of what that entails
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    I did live overseas, now I am living in Scotland but the property is in England, does this change anything? I am currently on the phone waiting for HMRC to answer because I am concerned that the agent is uncontactable.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
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    00ec25
    It is how it works, the agent has paid up all my taxes for the previous 12 month let and the short term lets, if there is any declaring to be done then they have done it!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    THAT IS WRONG please learn from what you are being told
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    No one is being defeatist just realistic you might want to try it. Knock yourself out. Issue a Section 8 on ground 12 and see how far you get.

    Oh and the bubonic plague was spread by fleas not rats.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I do apologise, why don't I ask my tenants to add some hypoallergenic rats and their army of friendly fleas to the petting zoo they are creating in my ancestral home.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 7:27 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    This is not the first straw by the way, what looked like a cat has previously been sighted in the window but I let it slide. Since the tenants continue to lie to me about the dog I would not be surprised if there is a cat as well.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 17, 7:29 PM
    • 5,369 Posts
    • 4,726 Thanks
    00ec25
    I have no idea what that is so I certainly have not given it to anyone.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Backing down, walking away! This is not Britain any more.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    I did live overseas, now I am living in Scotland but the property is in England, does this change anything? I am currently on the phone waiting for HMRC to answer because I am concerned that the agent is uncontactable.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    yes it does, it means your agent has no authority at all to deduct rent from the tenant as the LL is UK resident and should calculating and declaring their own rental profit via their own tax return.

    you are UK tax resident but have no idea what an NI number is? You have now drip fed another bit of info, that you are no longer abroad. Have fun dealing with HMRC, they will run rings around you.
    Last edited by 00ec25; 14-07-2017 at 1:22 AM.
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 10th Jul 17, 7:30 PM
    • 1,030 Posts
    • 1,014 Thanks
    gingercordial
    I did live overseas, now I am living in Scotland but the property is in England, does this change anything? I am currently on the phone waiting for HMRC to answer because I am concerned that the agent is uncontactable.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    You were overseas, ended up on the non-resident landlord scheme according to your dodgy agent, and apparently you and your agent think you are still on it despite you being back in the UK?

    You are from here, living in Scotland now and say you don't know what a National Insurance number is?

    Total and utter wind-up

    (If not, you and HMRC are going to have so much fun.)
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