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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 148Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 7
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:35 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    The Tax man doesn't get in touch until the end of the tax year - given you've rented for 4 months, your self assessment wont be due until Oct or Jan (if done online) for 2016/17 (1 months rent)
    Originally posted by Guest101
    That is only the current let, I previously had a girl in on a 12 month contract through this same agent and then a short term one. I don't have to do a return because it is all administrated through the tax scheme
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jul 17, 5:35 PM
    • 10,765 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    No one is being defeatist just realistic you might want to try it. Knock yourself out. Issue a Section 8 on ground 12 and see how far you get.

    Oh and the bubonic plague was spread by fleas not rats.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jul 17, 5:36 PM
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    Pixie5740
    That is only the current let, I previously had a girl in on a 12 month contract through this same agent and then a short term one. I don't have to do a return because it is all administrated through the tax scheme
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    To which tax scheme are you referring?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • LuckyG
    • By LuckyG 10th Jul 17, 5:37 PM
    • 132 Posts
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    LuckyG
    I appreciate what you're saying but I don't know why everyone here is apparently such an experienced landlord and yet so defeatist about a tenant blatantly breaking their agreement, if every time things go wrong you just throw your hands up in the air and say 'well I actually can't enforce anything in the contract' ....?
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    The problem is, there's always a risk that tenants will go against things in the contract. Some are wonderful tenants and abide by all of the rules but there's some that don't.

    Unfortunately the only thing you, as a landlord can do in situations such as this is go through the courts.
    No one is saying that it's right that tenants can do things that you're not happy about or do things that the contract states they shouldn't, but nothing can physically be enforced unless you go to court. This is a lengthy and expensive process, it's one of the things that comes hand in hand with being a landlord.
    I could never afford to be a landlord, I wouldn't even have the first clue where to start, but as a tenant I know that my landlord cannot just throw me out of minor issues.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:38 PM
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    Guest101
    You may just want to contact HMRC and check
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:39 PM
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    Guest101
    The OP still hasn't provided the wording of the no pet clause.
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 10th Jul 17, 5:40 PM
    • 954 Posts
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    gingercordial
    Yes all taxes are deducted before the money even gets into my account, it's about %25, and I have never heard anything from the tax man. Fine by me
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    That's just as unlikely as the rest of this thread. On the off-chance this is real, no, that is not going to satisfy HMRC.

    Unless you've also appointed the property agent as your tax agent (via HMRC form 64-8) and will be providing them with full details of your mortgage interest, other expenses, employment income, savings income and so forth to enable them to prepare and submit your tax return in due course?

    If not, you have very a nasty surprise coming.
    • GrumpyDil
    • By GrumpyDil 10th Jul 17, 5:42 PM
    • 40 Posts
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    GrumpyDil
    You can potentially enforce your rights by going to court but if you are going for repossession within the fixed term of your contract the grounds you would be looking at are discretionary and judges do not like evicting people at the best of times let alone on discretionary grounds. As everyone has said your only real option is to wait til the end of the tenancy and hope they move out or be prepared to evict.

    Don't get me wrong as I do have a little sympathy as we have a house with tenants in it who may or may not move out when the notice they have given expires and may or may not return it in the condition they received it in but that is a whole different story. The main thing is you have to ignore any emotional attachment to the property.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:43 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    If you live so far away why did you not opt for the fully managed service? What address is given in the tenancy agreement for the serving of notices?

    15% just to collect the rent is extortionate. The mind boggles as to why you agreed to this. Read the link G_M gave you back in post 41 about Letting Agents it explains how to choose one and how to sack one.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    In truth I did not realise at the time that there were different kinds of package and the agent never asked me to choose between different options, I did assume that some management would be involved if there was trouble while I was away. I had no problems the first time and never even heard from the tenant. Now there is a problem this time I have only been able to get through to the agent's secretary once when it started who said that it didn't look like a full management package and he would call me back, nothing for three weeks even though I have left over 20 answerphone messages.
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 10th Jul 17, 5:46 PM
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    gingercordial
    That is only the current let, I previously had a girl in on a 12 month contract through this same agent and then a short term one. I don't have to do a return because it is all administrated through the tax scheme
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    "The tax scheme"?

    By any chance do you live outside the UK? Are you therefore a non-resident landlord with basic rate tax (should be 20% not 25%!) being deducted by the letting agent on payments to you?

    Because if so you still need to do a tax return unless you have specifically and personally been told by HMRC that you don't need to.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:49 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    It says:

    "The Tenant agrees not to keep or permit to be kept on the Property any pets or animals of any description without the previous consent in writing of the Landlord"
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:52 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    To which tax scheme are you referring?
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    The agent registered me on the tax scheme where they automatically skim off taxes before it reaches my account so I don't have to do any administration at all.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 5:52 PM
    • 40,504 Posts
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    G_M
    In truth I did not realise at the time that there were different kinds of package and the agent never asked me to choose between different options, I did assume that some management would be involved if there was trouble while I was away. I had no problems the first time and never even heard from the tenant. Now there is a problem this time I have only been able to get through to the agent's secretary once when it started who said that it didn't look like a full management package and he would call me back, nothing for three weeks even though I have left over 20 answerphone messages.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    * Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?


    * HMRC (Non Resident [= overseas] Landlord Scheme)
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
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    Guest101
    It says:

    "The Tenant agrees not to keep or permit to be kept on the Property any pets or animals of any description without the previous consent in writing of the Landlord"
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Missing some key words - which shall not be unreasonably witheld.

    Meaning the term may well be unenforceable
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
    • 14,625 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    The agent registered me on the tax scheme where they automatically skim off taxes before it reaches my account so I don't have to do any administration at all.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Ye that's not how it works, thankfully the majority of tax owed isn't due to be declared until October
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 10th Jul 17, 5:59 PM
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    gingercordial
    The agent registered me on the tax scheme where they automatically skim off taxes before it reaches my account so I don't have to do any administration at all.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    Are they really taking 25% from you, not 20%?

    Is the extra 5% some kind of "admin fee" for doing this? On top of the 15% fee for just collecting the rent?

    Or did they tell you the tax rate is 25%?

    Either way you are being thoroughly shafted.

    Are they also the ones that told you you don't have to do a tax return? Maybe in the hope you don't find out that the "skimming" that's happening is an extra unwarranted 5% into their pockets.

    You are really not cut out for being a landlord.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 6:01 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Ye that's not how it works, thankfully the majority of tax owed isn't due to be declared until October
    Originally posted by Guest101
    It is how it works, the agent has paid up all my taxes for the previous 12 month let and the short term lets, if there is any declaring to be done then they have done it!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 6:03 PM
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    Guest101
    It is how it works, the agent has paid up all my taxes for the previous 12 month let and the short term lets, if there is any declaring to be done then they have done it!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    So why not just check with HMRC?

    Because quite frankly your agents don't have the authority to tell you this.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 6:04 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop


    Are they really taking 25% from you, not 20%?

    Is the extra 5% some kind of "admin fee" for doing this? On top of the 15% fee for just collecting the rent?

    Or did they tell you the tax rate is 25%?

    Either way you are being thoroughly shafted.

    Are they also the ones that told you you don't have to do a tax return? Maybe in the hope you don't find out that the "skimming" that's happening is an extra unwarranted 5% into their pockets.

    You are really not cut out for being a landlord.
    Originally posted by gingercordial
    It is about %25, if it is normally 2%0 then I am not sure why. But they pay it direct to HMRC and do all the paperwork.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 10th Jul 17, 6:07 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    Anyone getting the impression that the OP should be thanking a) the tenant for breaking this no pet clause & b) the nosey neighbour as otherwise they wouldn't have posted here & then they wouldn't have realised they were being played by their agent
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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