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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 148Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 6
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 10th Jul 17, 4:45 PM
    • 1,360 Posts
    • 4,110 Thanks
    Penitent
    Disagree. Barely a 4/10.

    TBFL might scrape it up to 5 but not really in the same class at all.
    Originally posted by G_M
    It's possible that my funny wind-up thread scale has been skewed by not having any really good ones for a while. The unhinged nosey neighbour and the idea that it must be a wolf 'cause it howls cracked me up. My friend's poodle used to howl if you played certain kinds of music, but I can't imagine anyone accusing it of being half-wolf.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 4:46 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Really? How did the letting agency know you were going to be away?

    You opted for the tenant finder package and that's what the letting agency did. If you didn't want to pay for the fully managed service you should have done some very basic research before the tenancy started. You didn't and now you are where you are.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I left my home empty at first because I didn't know how long I would be away, while I was overseas I got talking to someone whose son is in property. He passed my number on and the son was on the phone the next day telling me how easy it would be to rent through his agency etc etc and how they had good tenants waiting. They do deal with payments, they take 15% fees and another %25 for taxes but for that they don't even answer the phone half the time and never answer my messages or return my calls. I think for 15% I should at least get a call back when I call up distraught
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 4:48 PM
    • 14,625 Posts
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    Guest101
    I left my home empty at first because I didn't know how long I would be away, while I was overseas I got talking to someone whose son is in property. He passed my number on and the son was on the phone the next day telling me how easy it would be to rent through his agency etc etc and how they had good tenants waiting. They do deal with payments, they take 15% fees and another %25 for taxes but for that they don't even answer the phone half the time and never answer my messages or return my calls. I think for 15% I should at least get a call back when I call up distraught
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    15% to collect the rent, good negotiation there!
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 4:49 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    As a tenant...

    (and I don't know why I'm replying again, as you've ignored my offerings completely thus far)

    The 12 month is a fixed term. So, both you and the tenant have security that they will be there for 12 months.

    It is quite normal at the end of this term to either:
    - Seek to extend the term, i.e. sign another fixed term contract
    or
    - let the tenancy become periodic. Month by month. The tenant must then provide a minimum of one month before vacating, and you must serve them 2 months' notice that you would like them to vacate. The tenant does not legally have to leave at this point, especially if they are paying rent. If they do not leave, you can then apply to evict. It is not a "forever contract" however the law does protect tenants to the extent that they are the ones living in the property, it is their home, and they cannot just be summarily booted out with little notice and then have nowhere else to go.
    or
    - tenant just moves out, on the last day of the term. They don't need to tell you if they wish to do this.

    You should accept that for the time being, it is not your home. It is theirs, but it is your house.

    And ultimately, it is in your interest to be nice to them, because happy tenants look after homes, and can be helpful when the time comes for you to want to find new tenants, or not helpful at all. ("Oh yes, the landlord was really nice about our dog actually, we increased the deposit and will make sure we get carpets cleaned but he was fine with it." versus "Landlord is horrible, I wouldn't bother renting this place if I were you, made our lives incredibly stressful, neighbours were spying on us and reporting back, not worth the hassle.")
    Originally posted by SuboJvR
    I have read your messages and I agree that if this information is all correct I am not going to get anywhere with evicting them so I just have to tough it out and get my carpets (and furniture because the flat is fully furnished) all changed when they move out, IF they move out.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • 14,625 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    I have read your messages and I agree that if this information is all correct I am not going to get anywhere with evicting them so I just have to tough it out and get my carpets (and furniture because the flat is fully furnished) all changed when they move out, IF they move out.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Or if you evict them?
    • LuckyG
    • By LuckyG 10th Jul 17, 5:01 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 215 Thanks
    LuckyG
    I rent (for now), I also have a dog & 3 rats. There was nothing in our contract to state we couldn't have pets, but I did check with the letting agent at the time (a new one has taken it over now).

    We pay the rent on time every month, and have done for the past 4 years, we keep the place clean and it doesn't smell of my animals. When we move out in the next month or so, I will make sure the place is left as I found it. Well, actually it's better now than when we moved in.

    Anyway, my point is, if they have paid the rend in advance, they sound like decent tenants. Why cause so much hassle over a dog? If someone had been living on carpets for a year and then you moved back in, surely you'd want to replace them anyway.

    The neighbour sounds like she has nothing better to do, I find it a bit weird that she's spying and reporting back to you all of the time. It's creepy to be honest and I'd feel on edge if I was the tenant.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:01 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    It's not a joke and would make perfect sense when you read the information in the links that you've been given 3 times now.

    I suggest you read all the information in the other links G_M also gave you before you try taking any action against the tenants.

    Once you know your !!!! from your elbow write to the tenants giving them the required 24 hours notice and go and inspect the property.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    !!!! my elbow, I can't instpect it because I am so far away! This is why what is going on there disturbs me so much!! This dog is easily 100 cm at the withers, I don't want it scratching the doors with its massive paws and getting its smells into the furniture, I have valuable upholstered chairs in there and a four poster bed with drapes!!!
    • mollycat
    • By mollycat 10th Jul 17, 5:07 PM
    • 930 Posts
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    mollycat
    !!!! my elbow, I can't instpect it because I am so far away! This is why what is going on there disturbs me so much!! This dog is easily 100 cm at the withers, I don't want it scratching the doors with its massive paws and getting its smells into the furniture, I have valuable upholstered chairs in there and a four poster bed with drapes!!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Beginning to wonder if you're taking the mickey?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    • 10,766 Posts
    • 14,871 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    !!!! my elbow, I can't instpect it because I am so far away! This is why what is going on there disturbs me so much!! This dog is easily 100 cm at the withers, I don't want it scratching the doors with its massive paws and getting its smells into the furniture, I have valuable upholstered chairs in there and a four poster bed with drapes!!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    If you live so far away why did you not opt for the fully managed service? What address is given in the tenancy agreement for the serving of notices?

    15% just to collect the rent is extortionate. The mind boggles as to why you agreed to this. Read the link G_M gave you back in post 41 about Letting Agents it explains how to choose one and how to sack one.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:08 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    15% to collect the rent, good negotiation there!
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Well what do agents normally charge, it can't be that bad, at least I know all my taxes are done automatically so I don't have to have to pay £££ to an accountant or file a tax return. I just wish they were more responsive
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 14,625 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    !!!! my elbow, I can't instpect it because I am so far away! This is why what is going on there disturbs me so much!! This dog is easily 100 cm at the withers, I don't want it scratching the doors with its massive paws and getting its smells into the furniture, I have valuable upholstered chairs in there and a four poster bed with drapes!!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    1: no, no you don't.
    2: for anyone else who may be facing an actual real life scenario: Don't furnish your rented property with valuable furniture. You will only ever get back a percentage of it's value
    • LuckyG
    • By LuckyG 10th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 215 Thanks
    LuckyG
    !!!! my elbow, I can't instpect it because I am so far away! This is why what is going on there disturbs me so much!! This dog is easily 100 cm at the withers, I don't want it scratching the doors with its massive paws and getting its smells into the furniture, I have valuable upholstered chairs in there and a four poster bed with drapes!!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Ask the letting agency to inspect it. ETA: I didn't realise you don't t have that option.

    I'm sorry but 'getting it's smells into the furniture"

    It might have been an idea to remove those valuable items before renting it out, children can cause damage to property too. Is there a clause to say no children allowed also?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • 14,625 Posts
    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    Well what do agents normally charge, it can't be that bad, at least I know all my taxes are done automatically so I don't have to have to pay £££ to an accountant or file a tax return. I just wish they were more responsive
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    A full management service is typically 10-12%.


    (I wouldn't bet on your taxes being up to date!)
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:20 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    I rent (for now), I also have a dog & 3 rats. There was nothing in our contract to state we couldn't have pets, but I did check with the letting agent at the time (a new one has taken it over now).

    We pay the rent on time every month, and have done for the past 4 years, we keep the place clean and it doesn't smell of my animals. When we move out in the next month or so, I will make sure the place is left as I found it. Well, actually it's better now than when we moved in.

    Anyway, my point is, if they have paid the rend in advance, they sound like decent tenants. Why cause so much hassle over a dog? If someone had been living on carpets for a year and then you moved back in, surely you'd want to replace them anyway.

    The neighbour sounds like she has nothing better to do, I find it a bit weird that she's spying and reporting back to you all of the time. It's creepy to be honest and I'd feel on edge if I was the tenant.
    Originally posted by LuckyG
    I am making a hassle over a dog because this is not just some flat I bought to let out, it has been in the family for generations and has a lot of furniture in as part of the let which would be hard to clean, let alone replace. I am glad that you have an understanding landlord who allows you to keep animals which spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe but personally I do not want large or even small animals present given the damage they could cause and my very serious allergy to dog/cat fur. Washing a sofa cover is one matter but the upholstery on antique furniture is difficult to clean, you can't just put it in the washing machine!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:23 PM
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    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    I am making a hassle over a dog because this is not just some flat I bought to let out, it has been in the family for generations and has a lot of furniture in as part of the let which would be hard to clean, let alone replace. I am glad that you have an understanding landlord who allows you to keep animals which spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe but personally I do not want large or even small animals present given the damage they could cause and my very serious allergy to dog/cat fur. Washing a sofa cover is one matter but the upholstery on antique furniture is difficult to clean, you can't just put it in the washing machine!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    5.5/10 - getting better!
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 10th Jul 17, 5:23 PM
    • 59,620 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    It might be that the reason the neighbour's seen the dog is because the tenants are super-houseproud.

    It might be that the tenants are fully aware you intend to move back into the house and they fully intend to leave at the end of their current tenancy.

    It might be that when they leave they thoroughly deep clean everything so there's no evidence whatsoever there's ever been a dog even passing in the street.

    The long and short of it is this: You have what you have, tenants who might have a dog. There's nothing you can do about it for now .... just make sure you issue their notice in the correct manner/by the correct date at the end of their tenancy if you wish to return to take up residence. Then see how things are once you've got the keys back.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:24 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    A full management service is typically 10-12%.


    (I wouldn't bet on your taxes being up to date!)
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Yes all taxes are deducted before the money even gets into my account, it's about %25, and I have never heard anything from the tax man. Fine by me
    • LuckyG
    • By LuckyG 10th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    • 132 Posts
    • 215 Thanks
    LuckyG
    I am making a hassle over a dog because this is not just some flat I bought to let out, it has been in the family for generations and has a lot of furniture in as part of the let which would be hard to clean, let alone replace. I am glad that you have an understanding landlord who allows you to keep animals which spread the bubonic plague throughout Europe but personally I do not want large or even small animals present given the damage they could cause and my very serious allergy to dog/cat fur. Washing a sofa cover is one matter but the upholstery on antique furniture is difficult to clean, you can't just put it in the washing machine!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    If that furniture was so important to you then you shouldn't have left it in the property. Even if the tenant didn't have a dog, the furniture could still get damaged.

    Domestic rats do not spread the plague that is a ridiculous thing to state. If that was the case I'd be long gone as I've kept rats for more than 15 years.

    I value my animals just as much, if not more, than you value your precious furniture.
    If you valued it that much you wouldn't have left it in the property to potentially get damaged.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
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    • 14,349 Thanks
    Guest101
    Yes all taxes are deducted before the money even gets into my account, it's about %25, and I have never heard anything from the tax man. Fine by me
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    The Tax man doesn't get in touch until the end of the tax year - given you've rented for 4 months, your self assessment wont be due until Oct or Jan (if done online) for 2016/17 (1 months rent)
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 5:30 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    It might be that the reason the neighbour's seen the dog is because the tenants are super-houseproud.

    It might be that the tenants are fully aware you intend to move back into the house and they fully intend to leave at the end of their current tenancy.

    It might be that when they leave they thoroughly deep clean everything so there's no evidence whatsoever there's ever been a dog even passing in the street.

    The long and short of it is this: You have what you have, tenants who might have a dog. There's nothing you can do about it for now .... just make sure you issue their notice in the correct manner/by the correct date at the end of their tenancy if you wish to return to take up residence. Then see how things are once you've got the keys back.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    I appreciate what you're saying but I don't know why everyone here is apparently such an experienced landlord and yet so defeatist about a tenant blatantly breaking their agreement, if every time things go wrong you just throw your hands up in the air and say 'well I actually can't enforce anything in the contract' ....?
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