Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 99Posts
    • 27Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 3
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 1:37 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Does that mean my next door neighbours dog is also a wolf hybrid? She is a pug x jack Russell and howls an awful lot. However even if it is a wolf hybrid they are no longer banned in the U.K. And from a legal point are considered the same as any other dog so don't see why that would make any difference to you. It could be a chihuahua, or a Great Dane and there is still nothing you can do about it.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    I know it because the tenant admitted it when I asked her! And they are not all legal, any recent hybrid more than 12.5% wolf needs a license, I have read the DEFRA guidelines. She said it is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog but I have seen photos and it doesn't look like one to me! Whether it is legal or not it could still be tearing up my property, my nephew had one and its favourite activities were burrowing out of the garden, tearing furniture up and peeing in its owner's bed!!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 1:40 PM
    • 40,083 Posts
    • 45,778 Thanks
    G_M
    But it says in the contract that the agreement can be terminated by the landlord with two month's notice...? I am so confused by this, is it really true that a 12 month agreement effectively runs forever unless the tenant or court ends it? Why is it called a 12 month contract and not a lifetime contract?? How is it right that the tenant can stay after 12 months ends when there is no contract in place and if I am politely and with two month's notice asking them to leave?
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    No. When the 12 month contract ends, a new one starts automatically, month by month (yes, for ever) unless the tenant or a court ends it.

    That's why the LL has to serve a 2 month S21 Notice and then go to court.

    Please read the link

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

    Are you (trying to) managing this tenancy yourself or do you have an agent? If the latter, how did you choose your agent?
    Last edited by G_M; 10-07-2017 at 2:17 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:40 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,144 Thanks
    Guest101
    I know it because the tenant admitted it when I asked her! And they are not all legal, any recent hybrid more than 12.5% wolf needs a license, I have read the DEFRA guidelines. She said it is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog but I have seen photos and it doesn't look like one to me! Whether it is legal or not it could still be tearing up my property, my nephew had one and its favourite activities were burrowing out of the garden, tearing furniture up and peeing in its owner's bed!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    How is any of that relevant?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jul 17, 1:41 PM
    • 12,795 Posts
    • 35,148 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    I know it because the tenant admitted it when I asked her! And they are not all legal, any recent hybrid more than 12.5% wolf needs a license, I have read the DEFRA guidelines. She said it is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog but I have seen photos and it doesn't look like one to me! Whether it is legal or not it could still be tearing up my property, my nephew had one and its favourite activities were burrowing out of the garden, tearing furniture up and peeing in its owner's bed!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    BINGO!

    Take photos of the dog/recordings of it howling/etc and that's where you tell these tenants to forget about "standing on their rights - whilst carefully forgetting their responsibilities" and you'd like them out pronto or else you'll be going into that further.....

    That's two lies they've told you now
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

    #I'mWithNoel
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,144 Thanks
    Guest101
    BINGO!

    Take photos of the dog/recordings of it howling/etc and that's where you tell these tenants to forget about "standing on their rights - whilst carefully forgetting their responsibilities" and you'd like them out pronto or else you'll be going into that further.....

    That's two lies they've told you now
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    So what you're saying is that the OP should blackmail them to move out - are you feeling ok?
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 10th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    SuboJvR
    The dander gets in very deep in the carpet and is hard to get out if you have severe allergies/asthma. I will have to get all of the carpets replaced. Just the thought of it makes me itch
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    From my personal experience, this is simply just not true. I'm an atopic individual, with asthma, triggered further by allergies. My allergies include dust, and cats and dogs. Within 30 minutes of being at my dad's (cat's) I am symptomatic. My experience of living in a house previously inhabited by dogs, that I then cleaned, was that I had no problems.

    A professional clean will sort it and I think your tenants would be willing to pay for this in return for your accommodating their pet. I know I would be if it were me.

    Regardless, the 'damage' is done now. You can't get them out before the end of the tenancy, whether the dog lives there for another month or another few years, your carpets have had a dog on them. I would really encourage you try and be accommodating. Accept that the dog is there, be civil to your tenants who are all paid up, and play the "accommodating landlord" instead of the aggravated one. Say you understand the dog is living there, but as this wasn't allowed by the initial agreement you would kindly request that they arrange to have the place professionally cleaned, with particular attention to the carpets, at the end of their tenancy, whenever that may be. If not you'll end up getting a quote yourself to have it done and deduct from the deposit.

    If you make enemies of them now they won't be very inclined to help you out and you may then end up needing to chase the money through the protection scheme (the deposit is held in one, yes?)
    Last edited by SuboJvR; 10-07-2017 at 1:52 PM.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 10th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
    • 273 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sevenhills
    The tenant could be a reasonable person and move out after the 12 month period, if asked nicely, its either that or spending a lot of money in the courts.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jul 17, 1:46 PM
    • 12,795 Posts
    • 35,148 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    How is any of that relevant?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Very relevant imo.

    Do they want to get in trouble with The Law or no? Take yer pick - ie either "stand on rights" and get in trouble with The Law. Or admit guilt and pack up and go and The Law doesnt get involved.

    Simples....

    ....and...yep...that is how some of us act ...and it does work in my experience....
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

    #I'mWithNoel
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jul 17, 1:47 PM
    • 12,795 Posts
    • 35,148 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    So what you're saying is that the OP should blackmail them to move out - are you feeling ok?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Absolutely fine - thanks for asking

    It's not "blackmail". Its pointing out the Facts Of Life to them.
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

    #I'mWithNoel
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:49 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,144 Thanks
    Guest101
    Absolutely fine - thanks for asking

    It's not "blackmail". Its pointing out the Facts Of Life to them.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    No, it's really blackmail.


    Honestly, it's not a good idea
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 10th Jul 17, 1:51 PM
    • 1,698 Posts
    • 2,438 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    BINGO!

    Take photos of the dog/recordings of it howling/etc and that's where you tell these tenants to forget about "standing on their rights - whilst carefully forgetting their responsibilities" and you'd like them out pronto or else you'll be going into that further.....

    That's two lies they've told you now
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    The chances of a dog being more than 12.5% wolf are vanishingly small, ffs. I assume you know nothing about dogs.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 10th Jul 17, 1:54 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    SuboJvR
    Also be aware that if you continue to spy on them (whether by neighbours or yourself) you are potentially breeching their right to quiet enjoyment of the property.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 12,795 Posts
    • 35,148 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    It's hardly spying on them to be visiting your old friends, ie the neighbours, at intervals (as one does with friends). Followed by supporting your friends in any complaints about the howling the dog makes.

    It's called "being supportive to a friend".
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

    #I'mWithNoel
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 2:01 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,144 Thanks
    Guest101
    It's hardly spying on them to be visiting your old friends, ie the neighbours, at intervals (as one does with friends). Followed by supporting your friends in any complaints about the howling the dog makes.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention


    It's hardly harassment to stand outside on the street, or send some texts..... oh wait....
    • jondav
    • By jondav 10th Jul 17, 2:05 PM
    • 585 Posts
    • 407 Thanks
    jondav
    In case the dog is pooping or peeing in the garden.
    Would you rather it go inside?

    In case the dog is damaging items inside the place.
    The neighbour cannot report on that, also nothing stopping the LL from carrying out an inspection - with proper notice of course

    In case the dog is being allowed to bark.
    Very subjective - and difficult to action.

    Because the dog will probably be making the place smell "doggy".
    So what? If the tenant is ok with the smell that's fine as long as it is fully cleaned when they vacate. The smell is nothing to do with the LL - it isn't their house at the moment.

    EDIT; and I've now read that the dog is indeed barking (or, to be more exact, howling) and that would upset me that an innocent neighbour was being disturbed when I knew they werent due to be (ie because I'd specified no dogs).
    They don;t sound very innocent, they sound like trouble-making stalkers from what the OP has said!!

    Also - with OP being allergic to them - then she has every entitlement to replace the carpets afterwards and have the place professionally cleaned.
    No, you are wrong, that would be betterment.

    Add the fact that the tenant has proved they tell lies.

    My sympathies - and I would want them out pronto - and the main reason would be because I'd found out they are the sort of person that tells lies/takes me for an idiot that would believe lies.
    If you want to be a LL, you have to be able to find out these sort of things BEFORE letting a property out - the responsibility is on the LL.

    In the circumstances I would be going round to talk to them personally and telling them I knew very well that they had told me a lie and that had made me angry with them.
    So what if the LL is angry with them? Completely irrelevant.

    Tell them I have very valid reasons for specifying no pets in the contract - ie my allergy and protecting my garden from toileting and my home from smelling doggy and say that they had the shortest possible notice period I could legally give them to get out.
    When a house is rented to tenants, they pay for the use of it. It is not the LL's house whilst they are charging someone else £xxxx for the pleasure of living there.

    Followed by telling them the costs they would already incur for new carpets/professional cleaning/any putting right the garden and that I suggested they don't try and "stand on their rights/forget their responsibilities" or I'd be looking to see if I could get compensation as well for problems/hassle they were causing me and see if I could ensure an accurate reference about them got passed onto potential future landlords.
    This just demonstrates the type of person you are.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Very relevant imo.

    Do they want to get in trouble with The Law or no? Take yer pick - ie either "stand on rights" and get in trouble with The Law. Or admit guilt and pack up and go and The Law doesnt get involved.

    Simples....

    ....and...yep...that is how some of us act ...and it does work in my experience....
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Can the nosey neighbour prove that the dog is a "banned breed"? I suspect not.

    And blackmail, really??

    EDITED TO ADD:

    "What I meant was that one might - very occasionally - hear a dog "wwoofing" once or twice and then it stops. The chav neighbour I have lets their dog bark for minutes at a time and it happens several times a week"

    Taken from another barking dog thread on another board, this poster clearly has issues with dogs.....nicknamed their neighbours chavs because their dog barks for a few minutes a couple of times a week!!
    Last edited by jondav; 10-07-2017 at 2:22 PM.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 10th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    SuboJvR
    Oh, I missed the stuff about getting in trouble with The Law. Makes me think of Judge Dredd.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 10th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    • 7,824 Posts
    • 25,735 Thanks
    fairy lights
    So they deny having a dog but the neighbours have heard wolf-like howling...well it's obvious isn't it? The tenants are werewolves.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 10th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    • 7,872 Posts
    • 4,695 Thanks
    teddysmum
    So they deny having a dog but the neighbours have heard wolf-like howling...well it's obvious isn't it? The tenants are werewolves.
    Originally posted by fairy lights


    I was going to say the same , so don't do an inspection at full moon.


    Eviction may need some of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Keith-Silver-Sales-45-999/dp/B00BYJ9Y9Y
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    No.That's why the LL has to serve a 2 month S21 Notice and then go to court.

    Are you (trying to) managing this tenancy yourself or do you have an agent? If the latter, how did you choose your agent?
    Originally posted by G_M
    I don't understand why anyone would rent at all on these forever contracts, it is bizarre and the agent didn't say anything about it at all. I didn't think I had to be an expert since I was going through a professional and trusted them. They found the tenant and did the referencing.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 2:25 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,144 Thanks
    Guest101
    I don't understand why anyone would rent at all on these forever contracts, it is bizarre and the agent didn't say anything about it at all. I didn't think I had to be an expert since I was going through a professional and trusted them. They found the tenant and did the referencing.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    You know what's bizarre - someone running a business with no knowledge of what's involved. Sell up and move on.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

790Posts Today

6,804Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin