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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 124Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 2
    • Polly05
    • By Polly05 10th Jul 17, 12:59 PM
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    Polly05
    If you were to move back in, wouldn't you have the carpets all professionally cleaned? Wouldn't that remove any trace of dog hair from the carpet?
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 10th Jul 17, 1:02 PM
    • 214 Posts
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    SuboJvR
    They paid all of their rent in advance but I just really don't like dogs in my property, I may have to live there again in the future and I am allergic to dog fur.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    I moved into a house where the previous tenant had two dogs, it was obvious they slept in the main bedroom and this ended up being on my side of the room. There was a definite "damp dog" smell as well!

    I'm asthmatic, and allergic. So this was a problem initially. And it amused me that our tenancy agreement stipulated no pets (as it happened, the previous tenant was the landlady's brother).

    We cleaned the carpets extensively ourselves, a combination of steam cleaning and Vanish. We let it dry over a couple of days, reviewed whether we needed to do it again (had a bit of an overlap with properties), and we didn't.

    It was perfectly fine after that.

    I would say it is perfectly reasonable to assume and/or ask that the tenants will either get the place professionally cleaned for you, or take extra care of the carpets themselves. They are probably anticipating doing this anyway.

    Having had a dog there doesn't mean you can't ever live there again.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 10th Jul 17, 1:05 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    If I was the tenant I think I'd have more of an issue with the neighbour spying on me & effectively telling tales.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 1:07 PM
    • 124 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Quite a lot, I'd say.
    Please tell me you have protected their deposit, at least?
    Originally posted by fairy lights
    Yes I rented through an agency and they dealt with the deposit. Please explain Guest101's post to me so that I understand what I am missing - the poster says I should just wait 8 months for the tenancy to end because I cannot get them out before that because of the dog. Fair enough. Then he says that I should "sell up", and evict through the courts in 12-14 months...? when they won't even be here any more if I give them notice and don't renew their contract. I don't understand.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 10th Jul 17, 1:09 PM
    • 16,638 Posts
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    molerat
    What I am saying is that I don't understand Guest101's statement:
    "Also sell up once you do legally evict them, in about 12-14 months, via the courts"

    The poster says that I shouldn't bother trying to get them out (they have 8 months left on contract), then says I should evict them through the courts and sell up! I'm saying, why would I need to get the courts involved after the 8 months, since I can just give them notice to leave when their contract is up? Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    It is unlikely you will be able to evict them before the end of the tenancy. At the end of the tenancy they can stay on if they wish and the only way you can get them out is by going through the courts which can take anything from 6 months or more.
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    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:09 PM
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    Guest101
    Yes I rented through an agency and they dealt with the deposit. Please explain Guest101's post to me so that I understand what I am missing - the poster says I should just wait 8 months for the tenancy to end because I cannot get them out before that because of the dog. Fair enough. Then he says that I should "sell up", and evict through the courts in 12-14 months...? when they won't even be here any more if I give them notice and don't renew their contract. I don't understand.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    They will be there because your notice is just notice of intention to go to court.

    It DOES NOT end the tenancy
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 10th Jul 17, 1:10 PM
    • 7,860 Posts
    • 26,066 Thanks
    fairy lights
    Yes I rented through an agency and they dealt with the deposit. Please explain Guest101's post to me so that I understand what I am missing - the poster says I should just wait 8 months for the tenancy to end because I cannot get them out before that because of the dog. Fair enough. Then he says that I should "sell up", and evict through the courts in 12-14 months...? when they won't even be here any more if I give them notice and don't renew their contract. I don't understand.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    You're very unlikely to be able to get them out early, you'll need to wait until their contract comes to an end. But, you can't just not renew the contract and expect them to leave, you need to serve notice.
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 1:11 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    If you were to move back in, wouldn't you have the carpets all professionally cleaned? Wouldn't that remove any trace of dog hair from the carpet?
    Originally posted by Polly05
    The dander gets in very deep in the carpet and is hard to get out if you have severe allergies/asthma. I will have to get all of the carpets replaced. Just the thought of it makes me itch
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 10th Jul 17, 1:12 PM
    • 2,994 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    What I am saying is that I don't understand Guest101's statement:
    "Also sell up once you do legally evict them, in about 12-14 months, via the courts"

    The poster says that I shouldn't bother trying to get them out (they have 8 months left on contract), then says I should evict them through the courts and sell up! I'm saying, why would I need to get the courts involved after the 8 months, since I can just give them notice to leave when their contract is up? Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    It really is your responsibility to understand the laws, rules and regulations involved in being a landlord before you take on tenants, you wouldn't accept any other business not knowing what they are doing so why is it okay for you as a landlord to not know how to run your business?

    Had you done even a basic level of research you would know that at the end of the tenancy the tenant can choose to leave with no notice (although it is considered more polite to give notice), however if you want them to leave at the end of the initial tenancy period you have to serve them notice, if you don't and they choose not to leave they automatically go onto and AST rolling tenancy. Even if you do issue notice they can refuse to leave and you have to go to court to get them evicted. Even for a knowledgable landlord this can take several months but for someone who doesn't seem to know what they are doing the chances are any attempt to evict them will be unenforceable due to you not doing things correctly. This ends up leading to the eviction process dragging on for sometimes over a year while you get your act together and do things properly.
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 10th Jul 17, 1:16 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    rtho782
    The dander gets in very deep in the carpet and is hard to get out if you have severe allergies/asthma. I will have to get all of the carpets replaced. Just the thought of it makes me itch
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    The reason people are telling you to sell up is that you're obviously too emotionally attached to this property, and are not viewing being a LL as a business.

    You would therefore be better off selling up.

    In 8 months their fixed term expires, if they want to stay you'll have to serve notice before that to stand a chance of getting them out, then go to court, all in it's easily 12-14 months from now for you to get them out if they want to stay.

    And you won't be able to take their deposit to "replace all the carpets".
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: £13,000 / £15,000 House Bought!

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    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 1:16 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    They will be there because your notice is just notice of intention to go to court.

    It DOES NOT end the tenancy
    Originally posted by Guest101
    But it says in the contract that the agreement can be terminated by the landlord with two month's notice...? I am so confused by this, is it really true that a 12 month agreement effectively runs forever unless the tenant or court ends it? Why is it called a 12 month contract and not a lifetime contract?? How is it right that the tenant can stay after 12 months ends when there is no contract in place and if I am politely and with two month's notice asking them to leave?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 10th Jul 17, 1:17 PM
    • 1,405 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    But it says in the contract that the agreement can be terminated by the landlord with two month's notice...? I am so confused by this, is it really true that a 12 month agreement effectively runs forever unless the tenant or court ends it? Why is it called a 12 month contract and not a lifetime contract?? How is it right that the tenant can stay after 12 months ends when there is no contract in place and if I am politely and with two month's notice asking them to leave?
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    These are really the sort of things you should at least google before renting a house out.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:18 PM
    • 14,478 Posts
    • 14,182 Thanks
    Guest101
    But it says in the contract that the agreement can be terminated by the landlord with two month's notice...? I am so confused by this, is it really true that a 12 month agreement effectively runs forever unless the tenant or court ends it? Why is it called a 12 month contract and not a lifetime contract?? How is it right that the tenant can stay after 12 months ends when there is no contract in place and if I am politely and with two month's notice asking them to leave?
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Because that's what the law says- which is why I said sell up, you haven't got a clue
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 10th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    • 292 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    sevenhills
    These are really the sort of things you should at least google before renting a house out.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Or just read these forums for a few weeks
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 1:22 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    I forgot to mention that the 'dog' is a wolf hybrid. My neighbour has heard it howling on numerous occasions
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 10th Jul 17, 1:23 PM
    • 1,405 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    I forgot to mention that the 'dog' is a wolf hybrid. My neighbour has heard it howling on numerous occasions
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Ah, you nearly had me there!

    Good one.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 10th Jul 17, 1:27 PM
    • 2,994 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    I forgot to mention that the 'dog' is a wolf hybrid. My neighbour has heard it howling on numerous occasions
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Does that mean my next door neighbours dog is also a wolf hybrid? She is a pug x jack Russell and howls an awful lot. However even if it is a wolf hybrid they are no longer banned in the U.K. And from a legal point are considered the same as any other dog so don't see why that would make any difference to you. It could be a chihuahua, or a Great Dane and there is still nothing you can do about it.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Jul 17, 1:27 PM
    • 12,874 Posts
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Are they otherwise good tenants? Pay their rent on time?

    Why would you want to throw that away on the sayso of a neighbour?
    Originally posted by ViolaLass
    In case the dog is pooping or peeing in the garden.

    In case the dog is damaging items inside the place.

    In case the dog is being allowed to bark.

    Because the dog will probably be making the place smell "doggy".

    EDIT; and I've now read that the dog is indeed barking (or, to be more exact, howling) and that would upset me that an innocent neighbour was being disturbed when I knew they werent due to be (ie because I'd specified no dogs).

    Also - with OP being allergic to them - then she has every entitlement to replace the carpets afterwards and have the place professionally cleaned.

    Add the fact that the tenant has proved they tell lies.

    My sympathies - and I would want them out pronto - and the main reason would be because I'd found out they are the sort of person that tells lies/takes me for an idiot that would believe lies.

    In the circumstances I would be going round to talk to them personally and telling them I knew very well that they had told me a lie and that had made me angry with them. Tell them I have very valid reasons for specifying no pets in the contract - ie my allergy and protecting my garden from toileting and my home from smelling doggy and say that they had the shortest possible notice period I could legally give them to get out. Followed by telling them the costs they would already incur for new carpets/professional cleaning/any putting right the garden and that I suggested they don't try and "stand on their rights/forget their responsibilities" or I'd be looking to see if I could get compensation as well for problems/hassle they were causing me and see if I could ensure an accurate reference about them got passed onto potential future landlords.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-07-2017 at 1:38 PM.
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    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Jul 17, 1:33 PM
    • 14,478 Posts
    • 14,182 Thanks
    Guest101
    I forgot to mention that the 'dog' is a wolf hybrid. My neighbour has heard it howling on numerous occasions
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Ah holidays started early...
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jul 17, 1:36 PM
    • 40,198 Posts
    • 45,946 Thanks
    G_M
    Oh dear!

    1) You could serve a S8 Notice, ground 12 - breach of contract (see link in my post below). It's dicretionary. Judge would probably not grant you possession for a pet - maybe a 10% chance of success?

    2) When the current conract ends after 12 months, the tenants can stay and move to a periodic tenancy. That's the law. If you want them to leave you must evict via a S21 Notce and then the courts. Only the tenant, or a court, can end a tenancy (not a landlord)

    ( as a LL you really should know this!)

    3) Have you protected their deposit?

    4) The advice to evict and sell was because a) they may not leave unless you evict (2 above) and b) you clearly don't know enough to continue as a LL

    5) No one is drunk, except on laughs

    6) useful info:

    * Deposits: payment, protection and return

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

    * New landlords: advice, information & links

    * Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?
    Last edited by G_M; 10-07-2017 at 2:16 PM.
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