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  • FIRST POST
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    • 148Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet?
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:42 AM
    Can I terminate my tenant's tenancy early for having an unauthorised pet? 10th Jul 17 at 11:42 AM
    I am renting a flat to a couple on a 12 month tenancy agreement. When they applied they did not say anything about having a pet and in the tenancy agreement it states that tenants must get permission for any pets from the landlord first. I have been informed by a neighbour that one of the tenants has been seen going in and out of the flat with a dog, and the dog has also been seen in the garden. I asked the tenants about it and they claimed that it didn't belong to them but was a friend's who had been visiting or had left the dog there for a short time. I told them that I did not want a dog in the flat at all even if it was a friend's and that they should stop allowing the friend to bring the dog in, but it has been seen again since by my neighbour who watches and keeps me informed, when the woman tenant is around she often seems to have the dog with her.
    I think that the dog is probably really theirs or has been staying with them and I don't want it there. How can I go about ending their tenancy for breach of contract? Will I have to obtain proof that the dog is there? Does it matter legally whether it belongs to them or not?
    They also pre-paid all 12 months of their rent before moving in and have eight months remaining on the tenancy, will this make it harder for me to get them out?
Page 14
    • LKRDN_Morgan
    • By LKRDN_Morgan 13th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
    • 273 Posts
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    LKRDN_Morgan
    Then I will just have to make sure that they do not find out about any of this, and be none the wiser when they eventually leave. Maybe I will also have to hope that their hound does damage something, preferably expensive and ugly so that I can take it from what they are owed!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Don't you think if you try to make any deductions from the deposit the tenants will challenge it leading to them finding out it's not been protected?
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 13th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    I am putting together a dossier to take to the police before HMRC come after me. I have the tenancy agreement for this rental, several email back and forths and an agreement signed by the agent which has his name and the business name and (not working) telephone number which was for the first rental. Now that I read it again it is extremely vague, it states only that I agree to instruct the agent to find a tenant and for them to administrate rent at a %15 overall fee and for them to automatically deal with 'the appropriate taxation' prior to transferring the money to me. There is not actually any mention of a figure so there may be another document I signed about that but have not been given a copy of
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 13th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    you have no proof that she's not working aside from the word of a nosy neighbour. she could do shift work, she could work from home as she does something for a bank completely unrelated to the actual customer banking - IT for example? don't make assumptions when they have admirably paid 12 months rent upfront and given it to a dodgy agent who is taking 40%! sort the agent out first!
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    For all the OP knows they ARE the agent. Invent a mythical agent, call and say you will rent someone's house out for them, "find" some tenants, tenants claim to have paid the mythical agent 12 months rent. Everybody's happy. Except the OP, obviously.
    • aneary
    • By aneary 13th Jul 17, 12:18 PM
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    aneary
    As I have said before I have been trying to contact the agent for two weeks, firstly about the dog and now about this tax issue, I have left 20+ voicemails and now the phone doesn't even ring any more when I call so as you can see I am left out in the cold. I have checked for the name '(Agent's surname) Letting Solutions' on the Companies House web search but it does not appear, however I am told that this only registered limited companies and I don't know if that's what kind of operation the agent was running.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    If it's a real letting agent it will be registered, it will almost certainly be limited and vat registered.

    I think you've been had, didn't you say this all occurred via a friend could you not speak to him/her get some more information?
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 13th Jul 17, 12:21 PM
    • 148 Posts
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    higgledypiggledy_pop
    If it's a real letting agent it will be registered, it will almost certainly be limited and vat registered.

    I think you've been had, didn't you say this all occurred via a friend could you not speak to him/her get some more information?
    Originally posted by aneary
    That is a good idea, more of an acquaintance than a friend but I will try to get in touch with him.
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 13th Jul 17, 12:21 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 459 Thanks
    leslieknope
    For all the OP knows they ARE the agent. Invent a mythical agent, call and say you will rent someone's house out for them, "find" some tenants, tenants claim to have paid the mythical agent 12 months rent. Everybody's happy. Except the OP, obviously.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    OP has rented the property before with this agent and different tenants so i don't think this is going to be the case. plus nosy neighbour has been taking pictures so i'm sure they would recognise the agent.
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 13th Jul 17, 12:24 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    For all the OP knows they ARE the agent. Invent a mythical agent, call and say you will rent someone's house out for them, "find" some tenants, tenants claim to have paid the mythical agent 12 months rent. Everybody's happy. Except the OP, obviously.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    This is not possible, I have seen photos of the tenants, they are not very clear because they were taken through a window from some distance but the man was definitely not the agent.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 13th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
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    fairy lights
    OP has rented the property before with this agent and different tenants so i don't think this is going to be the case. plus nosy neighbour has been taking pictures so i'm sure they would recognise the agent.
    Originally posted by leslieknope
    Don't you see?? It seems so obvious! The 'nosy neighbour' has been in on it all along running the con with the tenants. I mean what do we really know about her, is she really who she says she is? Does she happen to have a young Turkish lover?
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 13th Jul 17, 12:36 PM
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    • 6,038 Thanks
    lovinituk
    Then I will just have to make sure that they do not find out about any of this, and be none the wiser when they eventually leave. Maybe I will also have to hope that their hound does damage something, preferably expensive and ugly so that I can take it from what they are owed!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    I believe they can still take you to court over it even after they have moved out. They probably have 6 years after they move out to find out about it and sue you for up to £12000 (3 times your stated deposit).

    I think you need to make sure you do nothing to p1ss them off!
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 13th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    Don't you see?? It seems so obvious! The 'nosy neighbour' has been in on it all along running the con with the tenants. I mean what do we really know about her, is she really who she says she is? Does she happen to have a young Turkish lover?
    Originally posted by fairy lights
    Please don't be ridiculous, this is a nearly 60 year old woman who has been living in the same cottage on the estate for the last 30 years.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jul 17, 12:46 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
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    Guest101
    This almost made me panic for a moment but I think you are being facetious. They look very well dressed, at least in the photographs taken by the neighbour, and the woman sounded reasonably well educated on the phone. I cannot imagine her growing a cannabis. I should have thought my neighbour would inform me if anything like that was happening there, although I doubt that she would know anything about drugs. He could just be very well paid or there could be wealthy family involved. I am not going to add THAT to the list of concerns

    However it does continue to upset me that they are fibbers, with dog, and the female does actually not seem to be working as was stated.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop

    What's her personal life got to do with you?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 13th Jul 17, 12:47 PM
    • 11,102 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    you say the deposit is £4,000. As a deposit cannot be more than 2 months worth of rent (it would be illegal if it were) that means you are letting at £24,000 pa. If "the flat" is genuinely worth that, (?) and you were expecting to have all the rent paid upfront, it seems "strange" you allowed the agent to drip feed it to you.
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    A deposit of over 2 months isn't illegal for AST. It is classified as a premium though and that that premium does give tenants extra rights. For example, a tenant with an AST who has paid a premium is free to assign the tenancy. Taking a premium from a tenant with an AST could mean that under s115 of the Housing Act 1988 the landlord may not be able to end a tenancy within 20 years*.....

    http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2012/02/09/five-premium-tenancy-questions-answered/


    *Depending on how s115 is interpreted. I'm just keeping with the vein of this thread and being sensationalist.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jul 17, 12:47 PM
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    Guest101
    Then I will just have to make sure that they do not find out about any of this, and be none the wiser when they eventually leave. Maybe I will also have to hope that their hound does damage something, preferably expensive and ugly so that I can take it from what they are owed!!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Oh you're funny. They'll find out and you'll be paying out £12,000
    • higgledypiggledy_pop
    • By higgledypiggledy_pop 13th Jul 17, 12:52 PM
    • 148 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    higgledypiggledy_pop
    whilst I go out and get more popcorn for your next round of this saga, consider this:

    you have ignored the replies that contain the information you need - see #41 for example

    you say the deposit is £4,000. As a deposit cannot be more than 2 months worth of rent (it would be illegal if it were) that means you are letting at £24,000 pa. If "the flat" is genuinely worth that, (?) and you were expecting to have all the rent paid upfront, it seems "strange" you allowed the agent to drip feed it to you.

    your initial statement was that the agent is holding back 25%. When we pointed out the tax rate is 20% you (briefly) changed it to 20%. I now note it has risen to 40%. Tax law requires the agent to deduct basic rate only (not 40%) if the landlord is overseas. Seems you cannot be consistent about that and have "forgotten" to tell the agent you are now back in the UK.

    you claimed to be overseas, now you claim to be in Scotland, but have no idea how the UK tax system operates, yet this is your "ancestral home"

    you do not want to deal with "professionals" yet you show no willingness to take on board the info you have been given here and apply it

    the police will tell you it is what it is in reality, a civil matter which they cannot deal with as you are wasting their time. You have a business name and the agent's name on a contract they signed, yet you say you cannot find any evidence of how to contact him or whether he is still trading??? Post them on here, it will take someone 2 seconds to do it for you.

    you are panicking because you phoned HMRC and they may now be aware of you, yet you thought you could get £24,000 tax free?

    you need to get professional help from an accountant asap for your tax as you are so out of your depth and ability there is no way you can deal with this yourself.

    I'll give you 10/10 for the "Turkish" idea
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    Well as you have probably gathered by now, yes I am out of my depth and no I did not know the ins and outs of what I am allowed to do as I stupidly trusted this person who seemed so genuine and who administered my first tenancy without any problems. I did not state anywhere that tax was supposed to be %40, that is the total deduction of 25 for 'tax' and 15 for agent. I have also told you that I was led to believe a large lump sum in one payment would incur more tax and this is why it had to be drip fed. I don't know the first thing about how this stuff works and had no idea there were different rules depending on where the landlord was residing, until now. I will obviously have to get SOMEONE involved but I am definitely going to the police first because fraud is criminal activity, please don't tell me that not only are tenancy agreements basically worthless for the landlord but also it's not fraud if your agent cheats you out of thousands and thousands of pounds and then disappears, because if it is then I might as well go and bloody shoot myself!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Jul 17, 12:53 PM
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    Guest101
    Well as you have probably gathered by now, yes I am out of my depth and no I did not know the ins and outs of what I am allowed to do as I stupidly trusted this person who seemed so genuine and who administered my first tenancy without any problems. I did not state anywhere that tax was supposed to be %40, that is the total deduction of 25 for 'tax' and 15 for agent. I have also told you that I was led to believe a large lump sum in one payment would incur more tax and this is why it had to be drip fed. I don't know the first thing about how this stuff works and had no idea there were different rules depending on where the landlord was residing, until now. I will obviously have to get SOMEONE involved but I am definitely going to the police first because fraud is criminal activity, please don't tell me that not only are tenancy agreements basically worthless for the landlord but also it's not fraud if your agent cheats you out of thousands and thousands of pounds and then disappears, because if it is then I might as well go and bloody shoot myself!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop


    It's not fraud, it's a civil matter.
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 13th Jul 17, 12:55 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 459 Thanks
    leslieknope
    your initial statement was that the agent is holding back 25%. When we pointed out the tax rate is 20% you (briefly) changed it to 20%. I now note it has risen to 40%.
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    TBF, the OP said they were taking 25% for tax and then 15% for 'managing' the property

    i'm only giving thwm 6/10. the recycled chocolate orange & dead dog in garden were so much better.
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 13th Jul 17, 12:55 PM
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    lovinituk
    I will obviously have to get SOMEONE involved but I am definitely going to the police first because fraud is criminal activity, please don't tell me that not only are tenancy agreements basically worthless for the landlord but also it's not fraud if your agent cheats you out of thousands and thousands of pounds and then disappears, because if it is then I might as well go and bloody shoot myself!
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    If he's disappeared with your money then yes its probably fraud. Don't expect the police to do much though, their resources are stretched enough as it is. Unless you get lucky, don't expect more than a crime number and/or the suggestion to log it with Action Fraud.
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 13th Jul 17, 12:56 PM
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    • 6,038 Thanks
    lovinituk
    It's not fraud, it's a civil matter.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Well it could be fraud, but the police are unlikely to do anything.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 13th Jul 17, 12:57 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    This is not possible, I have seen photos of the tenants, they are not very clear because they were taken through a window from some distance but the man was definitely not the agent.
    Originally posted by higgledypiggledy_pop
    Doesn't stop them being friends of the "agent". Have you let this property through this agent before to different people, though? I may have missed that.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 13th Jul 17, 12:57 PM
    • 522 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    When they leave have all the carpets nicely cleaned with their deposit.
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