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  • FIRST POST
    • MrMT
    • By MrMT 10th Jul 17, 10:08 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    MrMT
    Losing a battle with John Lewis over a TV. Need Advice.
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:08 AM
    Losing a battle with John Lewis over a TV. Need Advice. 10th Jul 17 at 10:08 AM
    Hello everyone.

    BACKGROUND:
    I am usually quite savvy and able to resolve these type of issues myself but this has been a real battle and John Lewis have basically said they will not take things any further. So I really need some help and advice.

    I bought a Samsung KU6400 40" 4k TV from John Lewis in November 2016 for £450. (It was a Christmas present from my parents). My sole intention for the TV was to use it with my PC and i've always used TV's with my PC without any issues. This new TV actually sits next to another Samsung TV, which I also bought from John Lewis a few years ago. I bought the TV online via PayPal with my Current Account.

    THE FAULT:
    A few weeks after purchase, I noticed there was a ghosting effect whenever I played games. Whenever there was a darker item on a lighter background, there would be a trail or multiple shadows around the darker item. I never use this TV to watch TV/Satellite but I checked to see if the fault existed on the Smart TV Apps and on normal TV - it didn't. The problem was isolated to gaming. I tried my other Samsung TV on its own and the fault was not replicated there, so the issue was only happening on the new TV.

    6 months after purchase (**see explanation below as to why I left it so long), I sent videos to John Lewis as proof of the issue. They confirmed the fault was present and sent an engineer to replace the screen. This was shambolic as it took Martin Dawes (their repair company) 3 attempts to get right. First they brought the wrong sized screen, second time they rang me 2 hours before the end of the day to say the part hadn't arrived, only managing to change it on the third attempt. The problem still persisted after the screen was replaced.

    I rang John Lewis to advise of this and had to fight them for them to agree to a refund on the TV, however they said it was only on condition that another engineer came out to confirm the fault. They sent another engineer who ran the built in tests on the TV and I showed him the fault. The engineer said the tests scored 10/10 which shows there is no fault with the TV, despite confirming that there IS an issue with the TV when using it with an external gaming device. John Lewis have said the engineer confirmed there is no fault with the TV and thus have refused any refund on the TV. He did however confirm the issues when using it with an external device. So they're basically blaming the external device, despite the issue not taking place my other Samsung TV, or the TV's before that.

    Where I am now:
    I did ALOT of research on the correct TV to purchase as it was my first 4k TV and I read a lot of reviews of people who used it for the same purpose as I intended. The TV has a Gaming Mode and also has built in Gaming settings. My argument is that the TV is not fit purpose because in my long history of using TVs with my PC, I have never ever experienced these kind of issues. Also, the fault does NOT occur on my other Samsung TV (which the engineer never checked to isolate the problem). They say I needed to report that the TV was not fit for purpose within the first few weeks of purchase (as far as I was concerned, the TV was faulty - I didn't know there was a distinction at the time between fit for purchase/faulty), which leads me onto why it took 5 months to report the fault.

    **I've been suffering from really severe depression and it has been on-going until roughly 2 months ago. During this time, carrying out even the simplest of tasks such as cooking, cleaning and leaving the house etc, have felt as daunting as the prospect as climbing Mount Everest. If you've suffered before, you will understand. I offered to send medical evidence to John Lewis to prove this was the reason for the delay. They refused the need for evidence but said they would "take this into account", which clearly they are not doing.

    John Lewis have flat out refused a refund and I now have no where to go because they would not escalate my complaint beyond a Team Manager on the phone. My last conversation with one of their Managers resulted in them repeatedly saying that there is no fault with the TV, yet my issues persist.

    I was a huge advocate of John Lewis before this happened but the way it has been dealt with has put me right off using them again. Any advice on where I can go from here would be hugely appreciated.
    Last edited by MrMT; 10-07-2017 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Typing Errors
Page 1
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    • 10,229 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:30 AM
    Rather than use "gaming mode" have you tried configuring the input and renaming it to "PC".

    At the end of the if JL's engineers can't confirm a fault then you have no choice but prove it yourself by commissioning your own report. Have you tried contacting Samsung and claiming under the manufacturer's warranty?
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 10th Jul 17, 10:40 AM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:40 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:40 AM
    Hello everyone.

    BACKGROUND:
    Any advice on where I can go from here would be hugely appreciated.
    Originally posted by MrMT
    The key to the dispute is you believe the tv is inherently faulty and JL don't. So if the matter went to an independent person (e.g. a judge) do you think you could convince them of the problem (given it won't be practical to produce the tv)? If not then you need to get more evidence e.g. a report from an "expert" stating there is a problem. If you do get additional evidence I suggest you try JL again.

    If you believe you have sufficient evidence already to convince an independent person the tv was inherently faulty then I suggest you may need to take legal action. Read here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/609046/MCOL_Userguide_for_Claimants_April_2017.pdf

    If making a claim I suggest you argue the tv is inherently faulty rather than unfit for purpose. (The tv has a gaming mode that does not work to a standard that would be regarded as satisfactory by a reasonable gaming user.)
    Last edited by naedanger; 10-07-2017 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Edited in response to post #4.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 10th Jul 17, 11:47 AM
    • 7,620 Posts
    • 5,485 Thanks
    pmduk
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:47 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 11:47 AM

    How did you pay for the tv? If on credit card then read here:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

    If you used some other payment method then you may now need to take legal action. Read here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/609046/MCOL_Userguide_for_Claimants_April_2017.pdf
    Originally posted by naedanger
    The OP states the TV was paid for via Paypal from his current account unfortunately.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 10th Jul 17, 12:15 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 5,722 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:15 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:15 PM
    What connection are you using when gaming? What game/games are you playing?

    If HDMI have you tried it with a console rather than a PC? And if you have did it have the same problem?

    It's very common for TVs to not be the greatest for PC gaming, if you only use it for PC gaming is there a reason you bought a multi function TV rather than a dedicated monitor which is specifically designed to do the job you want done?

    Have a read here http://www.144hzmonitors.com/knowledge-base/monitor-vs-tv-for-gaming/

    Basically JL may well be right in that there is no fault with the TV but you are trying to use it for something too advanced for it. It's not that the TV is not capable of running in gaming mode but more that it is not the primary function so it is not going to be as good as a dedicated monitor for fast paced games.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • 10,229 Posts
    • 7,152 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    One of the reasons why I suggested not to use "Gaming Mode" and instead change the input name to PC. Gaming mode is OK for consoles but if you really want the TV to act as a monitor then putting a TV into a PC mode will be better as it has the effect of turning off any picture processing which can cause issues.

    Also I wouldn't necessarily describe ghosting as a fault as such but more of an unwanted feature in flat panel display technology, some TVs handle it better than others and a lot will come down to what processing is going on with the image.

    I'm guessing the OP chose a TV for PC gaming is probably down to the fact they simply wanted a 40" display.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 10th Jul 17, 12:43 PM
    • 9,844 Posts
    • 4,055 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:43 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:43 PM
    Possible HDMI cable/ HDMI setting on the TV .
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 10th Jul 17, 12:57 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 5,722 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:57 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:57 PM
    I'm guessing the OP chose a TV for PC gaming is probably down to the fact they simply wanted a 40" display.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    And that is something a lot of gamers have to consider, the technology to get a good quality gaming monitor in larger sizes is not quite there yet, and what has been developed is far from affordable for most people. Ultimately OP had a choice of a good quality monitor up to the job but smaller than wanted, a larger TV but losing game play quality and risking lag and ghosting or the final option of spending out a good few thousand pounds to get a 40" gaming monitor.

    I do agree with you though that changing the TV source or possibly manually adjusting settings may improve it but if the processing power is not there then it will never be perfect, just made a bit better.
    • MrMT
    • By MrMT 10th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MrMT
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    Thank you all for your help and suggestions so far. I am truly grateful.

    One of the reasons why I suggested not to use "Gaming Mode" and instead change the input name to PC. Gaming mode is OK for consoles but if you really want the TV to act as a monitor then putting a TV into a PC mode will be better as it has the effect of turning off any picture processing which can cause issues.

    Also I wouldn't necessarily describe ghosting as a fault as such but more of an unwanted feature in flat panel display technology, some TVs handle it better than others and a lot will come down to what processing is going on with the image.

    I'm guessing the OP chose a TV for PC gaming is probably down to the fact they simply wanted a 40" display.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I bought a TV because I have always gamed on TV's and never had issues. I am not a competitive gamer so the high refresh rate and low MS response time is not something that is a priority to me. I had used Full HD TVs to this point with no ghosting whatsoever. I refuse to pay £800+ for a 27" 4k TV with 144Hz 1ms response time when I can get a 40" TV that historically has always worked for me, for half of the price.

    Also, I haven't been in contact directly with Samsung since dealing with John Lewis. I wasn't under the impression Samsung would offer a refund within the 6 months? I thought that was retailer's responsibility?

    Possible HDMI cable/ HDMI setting on the TV .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    I've tried 3 different HDMI cables with no change in result.

    I do agree with you though that changing the TV source or possibly manually adjusting settings may improve it but if the processing power is not there then it will never be perfect, just made a bit better.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    I've tried multiple settings as well as the PC/Gaming Mode sources and the ghosting persists regardless of which mode it's on. I also had both my GPU manufacturer and Samsung review the settings I settled with to see if they could be tweaked for improvements and I was told "NO" by both.



    Just to add - At the time I bought this TV, I was going to buy a less expensive model that was within my initial budget. The KU6400 I bought was only £100 more expensive and far superior to the other one. At this point I had already paid £350 for the lesser model. I cancelled the order and paid the additional £100 for the better TV by Visa credit card. This transaction shows as 30th November 2016 on my credit card statement. Does this make a difference?
    Last edited by MrMT; 10-07-2017 at 1:34 PM. Reason: additional info
    • MrMT
    • By MrMT 10th Jul 17, 1:31 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MrMT
    What connection are you using when gaming? What game/games are you playing?

    If HDMI have you tried it with a console rather than a PC? And if you have did it have the same problem?

    It's very common for TVs to not be the greatest for PC gaming, if you only use it for PC gaming is there a reason you bought a multi function TV rather than a dedicated monitor which is specifically designed to do the job you want done?


    Basically JL may well be right in that there is no fault with the TV but you are trying to use it for something too advanced for it. It's not that the TV is not capable of running in gaming mode but more that it is not the primary function so it is not going to be as good as a dedicated monitor for fast paced games.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    It's the HDMI1/DVI connection I am using and I play a variety of games from PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds to Mass Effect 1, 2, 3, Andromeda, Fallout 4. I don't play anything competitively.

    I haven't tried it with a console as I don't own one and have nobody nearby who I know that does.

    As for buying a TV instead of a monitor. I have explained this in my response above, I just forgot to include your quote in my reply. I've never seen anything negative about this TV online in respect of ghosting, otherwise I would not have bought it. All I had to go on was my previous experience with Samsung TVs and it has always been positive, until this one.
    • takman
    • By takman 10th Jul 17, 2:03 PM
    • 2,818 Posts
    • 2,356 Thanks
    takman
    I had used Full HD TVs to this point with no ghosting whatsoever.
    Originally posted by MrMT
    The issue may be due to your PC when it is set at a 4k resolution if you have only ever tried it on Full HD TV's before.

    What is the spec of your PC because it will need to be quite high spec to play games at a 4k resolution.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 10th Jul 17, 2:41 PM
    • 10,229 Posts
    • 7,152 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Thank you all for your help and suggestions so far. I am truly grateful.


    I bought a TV because I have always gamed on TV's and never had issues. I am not a competitive gamer so the high refresh rate and low MS response time is not something that is a priority to me. I had used Full HD TVs to this point with no ghosting whatsoever. I refuse to pay £800+ for a 27" 4k TV with 144Hz 1ms response time when I can get a 40" TV that historically has always worked for me, for half of the price.

    Also, I haven't been in contact directly with Samsung since dealing with John Lewis. I wasn't under the impression Samsung would offer a refund within the 6 months? I thought that was retailer's responsibility? Your statutory consumer rights lie with the retailer, your warranty rights are with the manufacturer, I suggest contacting Samsung


    I've tried 3 different HDMI cables with no change in result.


    I've tried multiple settings as well as the PC/Gaming Mode sources and the ghosting persists regardless of which mode it's on. But have you done what I suggested and actually renamed the input to PC? I also had both my GPU manufacturer and Samsung review the settings I settled with to see if they could be tweaked for improvements and I was told "NO" by both.



    Just to add - At the time I bought this TV, I was going to buy a less expensive model that was within my initial budget. The KU6400 I bought was only £100 more expensive and far superior to the other one. At this point I had already paid £350 for the lesser model. I cancelled the order and paid the additional £100 for the better TV by Visa credit card. This transaction shows as 30th November 2016 on my credit card statement. Does this make a difference? It might, something to bear in mind
    Originally posted by MrMT
    See my comments in red.
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