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  • FIRST POST
    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 10th Jul 17, 9:09 AM
    • 9Posts
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    tintin_1929
    Issued a ticket even though I have an annual pass!
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:09 AM
    Issued a ticket even though I have an annual pass! 10th Jul 17 at 9:09 AM
    Hi All,

    Hope you can help. Purchased an annual pass to park at the station at a cost of £1500. Have had it for about 3 months without any issues.

    7th July, I got a PCN on my windscreen stating '02 - Failing to Fully Display A Valid Permit'. My permit number can be seen clearly through the windscreen. The bottom of the permit, showing the number plate the vehicle is assigned to, was not shown purposely, see below.

    I have bought a different car and have emailed them twice to update the pass to show the change of number plate but no acknowledgement from them yet. So, in order to avoid a ticket, I put the permit in the window in such a way to show that there was a valid permit (so they could look it up from the permit number and see that there was a change of number plate requested). Remember the irony, I did this to avoid a ticket! . Lesson learned!

    I have been through the newbies FAQ thread and read the blue template (Indigo Park are listed as a member on the BPA but not the IPC). The trouble I have with the template is it talks about signage etc... I have a valid permit, I have evidence showing I have contacted them a couple of times to change the permit but have not had any response.

    Is it worth going down the route of the newbies FAQ or should I treat mine differently? (I see there is a notice at the top of the thread saying 'your situation is not different or words to that effect.

    Appreciate the guidance
Page 1
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 10th Jul 17, 10:31 AM
    • 25,926 Posts
    • 32,726 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:31 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:31 AM
    Presumably you have copies of the contact you made and their response?
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jul 17, 10:38 AM
    • 14,046 Posts
    • 22,063 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:38 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:38 AM
    From whom did you purchase the £1,500 parking pass? Have you complained to them about your current predicament?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 10th Jul 17, 10:51 AM
    • 9 Posts
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    tintin_1929
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:51 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 17, 10:51 AM
    Hi to you both. I purchased the pass from the same company that issued the ticket (Indigo Park). I have the emails that I have sent to them requesting them to change the number plate but have no responses from them.#

    I have not complained about the current predicament, want to be careful how I contact them because I understand I should do so only as the keeper, not the driver.

    Does that help?
    Last edited by tintin_1929; 10-07-2017 at 1:42 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jul 17, 5:07 PM
    • 48,970 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:07 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 17, 5:07 PM
    I would word it differently from the template in the NEWBIES thread:



    Dear Indigo,

    re PCN xxxxxxxxx

    I am the registered keeper VRN xxxxxxx which received an unwarranted 'PCN' on 7.7.17. Kindly cancel this irritation and issue an apology before I complain to your clients at this location, as well as the DVLA and Trading Standards.

    I have emailed you twice to update the Annual pass that I pay £1500 pa for, and proof of those emails is attached as evidence. If you have not updated the Annual pass data on your records to match the new car, this is your fault, not mine.

    This is a formal appeal but the driver will not be identified, despite your webpage's attempts to insist on that information, contrary to the instructions of the DVLA and BPA (you cannot make the details of the driver, a condition of a keeper making an appeal).

    I am aware that this is land covered by Railway Byelaws and you are impersonating 'penalty charges' yet dressing the matter up as if it is a 'contractual breach'. Indigo can't have it both ways, as I am sure POPLA will agree, and a registered keeper such as myself cannot be held liable on 'non-relevant land'.

    Since I pay you £1500 pa for a valid Annual Permit, I suggest you take the easy decision and cancel this charge, and kindly confirm that our Annual Permit covers this VRN. If you issue any more PCNs without replying to my emails about the Permit, this will be construed as harassment, similar to that in Ferguson v British Gas. I reserve the right to sue or counter sue Indigo for damages for distress and require you to act professionally and sort this matter out immediately.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 11th Jul 17, 2:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tintin_1929
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:59 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jul 17, 2:59 PM
    Thanks very much! I'll give that a try and post back with the results
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    • 48,970 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    Don't fill in real stuff in the box about 'driver' when you tick the box to NOT say who was driving. Do not admit that.

    Put:

    'the Driver' as the name of the driver.

    and 'does not have to be named and nor can you require this information' in the address for driver.

    Or do what this poster did, who is now about to win at POPLA stage:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5677856

    At no point was any indication given as to the identity of the driver, the box was unticked which asked 'were you the driver' on the appeal form, and when asked to input these details, N/A was entered into the fields.
    Obviously you must give your real details as the appellant keeper.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-07-2017 at 4:25 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 12th Jul 17, 9:02 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tintin_1929
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:02 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jul 17, 9:02 AM
    I was going to ask how to tackle that part! Cheers for that. :-)
    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 21st Jul 17, 8:49 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tintin_1929
    • #9
    • 21st Jul 17, 8:49 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Jul 17, 8:49 AM
    Hi Coupon-mad,

    I'm back with an update! The parking appeal has been submitted and in the meantime, I have emailed Impark again asking them to update the pass (this is the third time). Guess what?? THEY GAVE ME YET ANOTHER PARKING TICKET!!

    It's getting beyond ridiculous....
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 21st Jul 17, 9:41 AM
    • 3,032 Posts
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    DoaM
    Send them a formal Letter Before Action, advising them to:

    1. Update your annual pass (as previously advised several times)
    2. Cancel all open PCNs
    3. Provide a written apology and confirmation that no further PCNs will be issued in relation an "incorrect" VRM

    Above to be confirmed within 14 days of the date of this letter.
    If they fail to do so then you'll initiate action in the county court pursuant to:

    A. A claim for damages for harassment (£500)
    B. A claim for damages for a Data Protection Act breach (unlawfully obtaining and using personal data) (£750)

    That might get them to finally sit up and take notice.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 21st Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • 10,061 Posts
    • 9,147 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    In this particular case, I think it harms the appeal if the OP doesn't admit to being the driver.

    The argument is that OP paid £1500 to get an annual parking permit. This was not only available for the car at time of buying ticket, but for any subsequent change of vehicle and was made available to the driver/commuter who had the right to park, in the same way that the annual season rail ticket is issued to a commuter.

    By purposely not issuing a replacement pass or not having the systems in place to do this within a reasonable, they were creating an entrapment situation whereby if they did not issue an updated pass, they were denting OP the use of the permit that was purchased and as a byproduct, were attempting to make more money from penalties caused by their own leack of procedures.

    You should not only ask for tickets to be cancelled, but for compensation as well.

    Is there any wording on their t&c for parking that covers change of vehicle and replacement pass?
    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 21st Jul 17, 12:57 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tintin_1929
    Thanks for the replies. I haven't checked the T's & C's <ducks for cover> but when I bought the pass, they said I can change cars/plates on the pass as required for free.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jul 17, 3:11 PM
    • 48,970 Posts
    • 62,461 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi Coupon-mad,

    I'm back with an update! The parking appeal has been submitted and in the meantime, I have emailed Impark again asking them to update the pass (this is the third time). Guess what?? THEY GAVE ME YET ANOTHER PARKING TICKET!!

    It's getting beyond ridiculous....
    Originally posted by tintin_1929
    Take it into the station and ask to see the manager there, maybe he has a direct phone number to sort this out properly.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tintin_1929
    • By tintin_1929 25th Jul 17, 12:33 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tintin_1929
    Hi everyone - here's an update...

    Got back to the car on Friday, yet another ticket bringing my total to 3. So my Friday night was spent putting a letter together, printing out and attaching evidence, etc.. as per the guidance I have had here. Sent it Special Delivery, signed for and kept all receipts etc.

    On Monday morning (before the letter reached Impark), I suddenly get 4 or 5 emails back from them acknowledging my request and apologising for not having dealt with it sooner and cancelling all 3 tickets!!!. Frustrated, I reply back and highlight their failings, namely that the email address they sent with the permit letter doesn't exist, that they hadn't responded to any emails I had sent and I was getting almost daily PCNs. I then informed them that a Letter Before Action has already been issued.

    I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I have spent the £6 odd on the Special Delivery, I have also had to use chemicals on my windscreen to get rid of the sticky backing left by the PCN (which was baked on by the sun each time) at about £5 or so. My wipers got covered in the sticky stuff which went all over my windscreen because it rained on Friday. So now I have to try and clean them or get them replaced. If replaced, £27. Plus all my time that has been taken on Friday night drafting the letter, printing out the evidence, etc...

    In short, I'm not happy so in the Letter Before Action, I stated that I wanted £60 compensation and explained why. Am I within my rights to do this?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 25th Jul 17, 12:37 PM
    • 3,032 Posts
    • 3,082 Thanks
    DoaM
    Yes you are ... anyone can take anyone else to small claims for whatever reason. Whether your claim would succeed is another matter ... IMHO you have a valid claim for them to cover your losses incurred. (Except time ... only provable losses with receipts will probably get through).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 25th Jul 17, 1:52 PM
    • 1,012 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    If you want to recover your losses, you have a claim. When you bought the permit from them you entered into a contract with them , and a specific term of that contract was that they would replace the permit free of charge if your car/VRN changed.


    That term was either orally agreed at the time the contract was entered into, or it may have been in the written T&Cs, you haven't said.


    They are therefore in breach of their contractual obligations and their breach has resulted in the losses you have identified.


    However, to recover those losses they either have to agree to pay you or you have to sue them.


    If you do this properly, I think you would win. however, issuing proceedings, drafting the claim and your witness evidence, attending court, paying the court fees etc is a royal pain in the backside, so you have to be prepared to actually do it.


    Send an LBC to them and see how you get on. Post it here for comment if you like. Organise it like this:
    1. set out the facts (ie on x date we entered into a contract... the terms of the contract were...... On x dates I informed you of my change of vehicle and asked for a new permit. you failed to supply one and your operative(s) then proceeded to issue a number of parking charge notices to my vehicle. On x date you eventually agreed to withdraw the pcns. In the meantime, I had [=set out what you did and how it caused loss]
    2. Say what your cause of action is [eg I have a claim in damages for breach of contract. You breached your contractual obligations by issuing pcns to my vehicle on x dates]
    3. Say what you want: I want you to pay me £x in respect of .......
    4. Say when they must reply by (14 days) otherwise you will issue proceedings.
    5. Draw attention to the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and in particular the sanctions for failure to comply with it.
    6. Enclose documents you rely on (eg the t&cs, copies of the NtDs)
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