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  • FIRST POST
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 1:50 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 3Thanks
    daverimmo
    help with pcn at directions questionnaire stage
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:50 PM
    help with pcn at directions questionnaire stage 9th Jul 17 at 1:50 PM
    hello there please advise my next steps i have filed a defense already before i came across this site i know know this may be a weak defense here we go

    Dear Sir / Madam,

    I am writing with regards to the above parking notice to which I
    have not received nor seen any evidence of this ticket on my
    vehicle.

    The first I knew of this parking notice was when I received a
    letter from NE Parking Ltd asking me to pay the outstanding charge
    of £100.00. As I have not physically seen this charge I thought
    this was a bogus company and truly believed it was a scam.
    As you hear about these types of scams all the time.

    It only became apparent that this charge was legit after receiving
    this Court Claims letter, hence my reply.

    The letter states that the notice was issued at 18.24. If this is
    true the premises would have been closed and I would not be
    causing any obstruction to the premises or owners. Again
    this is a ticket I have not seen.

    I finish work at 18.15 and drive from F#~##Q. The Travelling time
    from work to claimant at F#~~~G is approximately 12/13
    Minutes, depending on traffic. Therefore this ticket must have
    been issued as soon as I walked away from my car.

    With normal parking penalties you are usually given a few minutes
    grace, in this instance I have been given no more than 60 seconds
    and feel this charge is unfair.

    I would kindly request that the information I have provided is
    taken into consideration when making a final decision with this
    claim.

    I thank you for your time and consideration regarding this matter
    and look forward to hearing from soon.

    Kind regards

    defendant.
    so now i am at the point of the the defense is accepted and gladstones have responded in there normal manor of special request of papers alone hearing and if the court could send me a n159 form which the court have not sent i have only received the directions questionnaire (small claims track) is my defense weak to the point where i should just pay the £238 they are asking please advise my next steps thanks in advance
    David.
    Last edited by daverimmo; 09-07-2017 at 3:13 PM. Reason: personal info removed
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Jul 17, 1:54 PM
    • 33,227 Posts
    • 17,175 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:54 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:54 PM
    That defence won't win and confirms who was driving, as well as revealing your ideas here so edit it and go to the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum for advice on how to deal with this
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    is it possible to amend my first defense
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    • 33,227 Posts
    • 17,175 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:07 PM
    Use edit button
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 2:14 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:14 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:14 PM
    i have already submitted on money claims on 19/06/17 so i now presume im in for a big bill even tho i still haven't seen this ticket is there any way i can change/amend on money claim so far down the process i cant find info on newbies thread just what to write to start your defense when i already have submitted the defense please help
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    • 33,227 Posts
    • 17,175 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:23 PM
    Ok. Cross purposes!

    You still need to remove your personal details from your OP.

    As posted that defence won't win in court.

    Go to the newbies FAQ thread and read up on constructing s defence and use the links there for more advice.

    You look to have admitted who was driving so don't bother with any POFA defences
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Jul 17, 2:57 PM
    • 16,487 Posts
    • 20,647 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:57 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:57 PM
    if the defence was already submitted in the first 28 days , you cannot alter it later UNLESS you pay a great deal of money (AFAIK) - so lets say it cannot be changed or amended or altered now

    so if you ARE at the DQ stage its about evidence , picures , witness statements etc

    post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread has a walk through by BARGEPOLE , please read it

    so start getting your ducks in a row at this EVIDENCE stage (because the defence has already been submitted and cannot be "edited")

    and EDIT post #1 (your opening post) to remove details of who did what

    only use terms like

    THE DEFENDANT

    THE CLAIMANT

    THE DRIVER

    THE KEEPER
    Last edited by Redx; 09-07-2017 at 9:42 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    hello thanks for your help i have photos of parking signs not lit up as this was early feb at 18.24 it would be dusk and signs are high up on the wall also no parking lines outside the shop in question giving me no indication of a car park just a pavement would this help me in my evidence and witness statement thanks in advance
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    hello thanks for your help i have photos of parking signs not lit up as this was early feb at 18.24 it would be dusk and signs are high up on the wall also no parking lines outside the shop in question giving me no indication of a car park just a pavement would this help me in my evidence and witness statement thanks in advance
    Originally posted by daverimmo
    Yes. You can add evidence with your WS before the hearing.

    But you can't amend your defence, it is what it is. You can only build on what you included already, nothing completely new. You will be evidencing 'no grace period' and lack of clear signs, no contract agreed in 60 seconds. This was your best point:
    With normal parking penalties you are usually given a few minutes
    grace, in this instance I have been given no more than 60 seconds
    and feel this charge is unfair.
    Read the NEWBIES thread and prepare for each stage - DQ next. Easy. NOT the N159 Gladstones misleadingly posted to you. You must complete the N180 provided by the court because you will win this only by appearing in person at an oral hearing.

    Come back in a couple of months to discuss your WS and evidence.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-07-2017 at 5:06 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    thanks for your help if i get a draft my witness statement building on my already submitted defense along with my photo evidence will you then advise me if it will be adequate to stand up thanks in advance
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 5:26 PM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes we will certainly and gladly help, and you can also argue against the added-on costs.

    And there are other tips for the day of the hearing, such as challenging the 'Rights of Audience' (RoA) of the hired gun (solicitor's agent, usually) who rocks up. Don't be intimidated - you may be able to get him/her disqualified from speaking on the day, and the claim struck out. Happens more than you might think. Gladstones (is it one of theirs?) will not appear.

    Search the forum for 'rights of audience', this can be fun...and you can check the person's RoA on the spot by texting the BMPA on the day of the hearing. You will learn all that, if you read other threads about RoA, I would do so in advance.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-07-2017 at 5:28 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • 33,227 Posts
    • 17,175 Thanks
    Quentin
    Your OP still reveals who was driving!
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 9:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    again thanks for your help and yes its gladstones who is acting for ne parking so if i tick yes to c1 and put my local court in d1 with a special note stating i oppose their request for a paper hearing and wish to proceed with a oral hearing at my local court once more thanks in advance
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 9:59 PM
    • 51,473 Posts
    • 65,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As long as you are filling in the N180 the court sent you, not the N159 Gladstones waved at you to mislead you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 10:35 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    hello there yes i am only filling in the n180 form and will be sending the form by post to both the court and to gladstones i have asked gladstones for photographic evidence no reply as yet
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 9th Jul 17, 11:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    i have a beginning draft of my witness statement bear in mind this is only a draft and will be amended just want to get ahead of the process so i am ready, hear goes
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    This is my witness statement for the parking charge notice that I have no recollection and proof of this ever being on my vehicle I am the registered owner of the vehicle and am the defendant in this case.
    1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge there are true to the best of my information and belief.

    2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    3. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question in this case. However due to the long passage of time since the alleged contraventions, I am unable to recall whether I was the driver.

    4. I recall receiving some letters in the post from the claimant and I ignored them as I believed them to be scam letters due to the excessive amounts being claimed. I felt vindicated in that decision when I received no further letters or contact of any kind from the claimant on this matter.

    5. I was then surprised to receive a letter before claim from the claimants representatives. I did some research into why I may have received this and it seems the claimant and similar parking companies are submitting masses of court claims for old “parking charges” and are inappropriately using the court system as a form of debt collection.

    6. The claimant failed to include a copy of their written contract as per Practice Direction 16 7.3(1) and Practice Direction 7C 1.4(3A). No indication is given as to the Claimants contractual authority to operate there as required by the Claimants Trade Association's Code of Practice B1.1 which says

    a. If you operate parking management activities on land which is not owned by you, you must supply us with written authority from the land owner sufficient to establish you as the ‘Creditor’ within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where applicable) and in any event to establish you as a person who is able to recover parking charges. There is no prescribed form for such agreement and it need not necessarily be as part of a contract but it must include the express ability for an operator to recover parking charges on the landowner’s behalf or provide sufficient right to occupy the land in question so that charges can be recovered by the operator directly. This applies whether or not you intend to use the keeper liability provisions.
    7. The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed the particulars of claim are not clear and concise as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a). The Claimant are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one. HM Courts Service have identified over 1000 similar sparse claims. I believe the term for such behaviour is roboclaims and as such is a Practice Direction 3A which references Civil Procedure Rule 3.4 illustrates this point:!
    8. Ne Parking Limited are not the lawful occupier of the land. I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no rights to bring this case.
    a) The Claimant is not the landowner and is merely an agent acting on behalf of the landowner and has failed to demonstrate their legal standing to form a contract.
    b) The claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the location in question
    c) The Claimant is put to proof that it has sufficient interest in the land or that there are specific terms in its contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge. I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no right to bring action regarding this claim.
    9. The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist
    a) The signage on this site is inadequate to form a contract. It is barely legible, making it difficult to read.
    b) The sign fails because it must state what the ANPR data will be used for. This is an ICO breach and contrary to the Code of Practice.
    c) The sign does not contain an obligation as to how to ‘validly display’ the ticket in the windscreen, therefore there was no breach of any ‘relevant obligation’ or ‘relevant contract’ as required under Schedule 4 of POFA.
    d) In the absence of ‘adequate notice’ of the terms and the charge (which must be in large prominent letters such as the brief, clear and multiple signs in the Beavis case) this fails to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the POFA.
    e) The time it took for the ticket to be issued, there is no possible chance of a contract to be agreed in 60 seconds.
    10. The driver did not enter into any 'agreement on the charge', no consideration flowed between the parties and no contract was established.
    a) ) The Defendant denies that the driver would have agreed to pay the original demand of £100 to agree to the alleged contract had the terms and conditions of the contract been properly displayed and accessible.
    11. The Defendant would like to point out that this car park can be fully distinguished from the details, facts, and location in the Beavis case. This site does not offer a free parking licence, nor is there any comparable 'legitimate interest' nor complex contractual arrangement to disengage the penalty rule, as Parking Eye did in the unique case heard by the Supreme Court in 2015. Whilst the Claimant withheld any photos of the signs on site, the Defendant contends these are illegible with terms hidden in small print, unlike the 'clear and prominent' signs which created a contract Mr Beavis was 'bound to have seen'.
    12. There appears to be no markings on the pavement that are indicating this is a car park it just looks to be a pavement owned by the local council.
    13. The date of the issued ticket is Feb at 18.24 the evening would be dusk/dark and no lighting above or around the signs not allowing judgment to be made as to parking in the alleged area.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.


    Signed……………………..



    Dated………………………
    • daverimmo
    • By daverimmo 10th Jul 17, 6:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    daverimmo
    hello there sorry to be a pest i have a draft of my witness statement would you have a check to see if im on the right lines again apologies for my lack of knowledge on the matter
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