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    • Pk King X11
    • By Pk King X11 9th Jul 17, 11:23 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Pk King X11
    Helping Dad buy council flat, will it affect me from getting 'first home' benefits?
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 17, 11:23 AM
    Helping Dad buy council flat, will it affect me from getting 'first home' benefits? 9th Jul 17 at 11:23 AM
    I want to help my dad buy a council home, neither I or he owns any home, were only renting. We will be applying via 'Right to Buy' which should give us 50% off. I will be living with him to help quickly clear the mortgage. The question is, should I appear as a joint tenant in the application form? Am I required? What are the benefits of being a joint tenant? Will it prevent me from getting government's benefits later on when I'm buying my own first home (probably with the help of my dad)?

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Jul 17, 1:10 PM
    • 40,567 Posts
    • 46,415 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:10 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:10 PM
    Who is buying this property?
    Your dad or you and your dad?

    If you are a joint owner, you will never again be a FTB from the government persepctive.

    If you jointly own as 'Joint Tenant', then if your dad dies, you'll own the entire property (whatever dad's will says)

    If you own jointly as 'Tenants in Common', then if dad dies, his half will be inherited according to his will.
    Last edited by G_M; 09-07-2017 at 1:13 PM.
    • dionysia
    • By dionysia 9th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    dionysia
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:25 PM
    What does applying for a tenancy have to do with it? Does your dad not have a council flat currently?
    June 2017: owe £16,818.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    • 14,789 Posts
    • 13,143 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:35 PM
    Apart from a possible increase to your eventual inheritance subsidised by council tax payers and those denied a future council home, is there any actual benefit for your father in owning his flat, with the increased costs and decreased security of tenure that carries?
    • Tiners
    • By Tiners 9th Jul 17, 1:39 PM
    • 165 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    Tiners
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:39 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:39 PM
    Still trying to work how it works that the OP is helping their dad to buy now... and then at some point in the future their dad will be helping the OP to buy?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • 7,055 Posts
    • 7,525 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:00 PM
    I want to help my dad buy a council home, neither I or he owns any home, were only renting. We will be applying via 'Right to Buy' which should give us 50% off. I will be living with him to help quickly clear the mortgage. The question is, should I appear as a joint tenant in the application form? Am I required? What are the benefits of being a joint tenant? Will it prevent me from getting government's benefits later on when I'm buying my own first home (probably with the help of my dad)?

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by Pk King X11
    So you are each helping buy the other a home?????
    Why dont you just keep it simple and each buy your own ???
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 9th Jul 17, 2:21 PM
    • 990 Posts
    • 2,150 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:21 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:21 PM
    So you are each helping buy the other a home?????
    Why dont you just keep it simple and each buy your own ???
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I expect they're wanting their 50% freebie to finance the second
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 9th Jul 17, 2:31 PM
    • 2,575 Posts
    • 5,668 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:31 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:31 PM
    Talk about wanting your cake & eating it
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 9th Jul 17, 2:36 PM
    • 2,007 Posts
    • 1,930 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:36 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 2:36 PM
    is there any actual benefit for your father in owning his flat, with the increased costs and decreased security of tenure that carries?
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Could you explain how owning decreases security of tenure please?
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jul 17, 2:43 PM
    • 14,789 Posts
    • 13,143 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Could you explain how owning decreases security of tenure please?
    Originally posted by Alter ego
    Simply because it does... This is a well-established fact that those looking at RtB discount always forget.

    Right now, the father is very unlikely to ever lose their secure tenancy, unless through their own actions.

    If the OP and their father cannot keep up with the mortgage repayments, the flat will be repossessed. If the OP suffers financial problems of their own, the flat is at risk. The father is also going to be in receipt of much larger maintenance costs, with a share of block costs as well as costs internal to the flat - and refusal to pay them can result in the lease being forfeited. If the father is in receipt of benefits, they may be reduced.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 9th Jul 17, 2:49 PM
    • 14,901 Posts
    • 37,201 Thanks
    elsien
    If you marry then divorce, your half of the flat may be included as a marital asset so you would need to raise the money to buy the ex out.

    If you go bankrupt your half of the flat would be at risk.
    You/your dad also have to factor in any maintenance costs which he currently doesn't have to pay.

    Is most of the benefit for the arrangement for you or for him? If it's for you, please consider the impact of all eventualities on him before you go ahead.
    That's if you can go ahead of course - is your name currently on the tenancy?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 9th Jul 17, 7:18 PM
    • 6,061 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Apart from a possible increase to your eventual inheritance subsidised by council tax payers and those denied a future council home, is there any actual benefit for your father in owning his flat, with the increased costs and decreased security of tenure that carries?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    As explained to you in a previous thread, council housing is not subsidised by council tax payers. Council housing is self financing.

    Housing Revenue Account - Income and Expenditure Statement
    The Housing Revenue Account (HRA) reflects a statutory obligation to maintain a revenue
    account for local authority housing provision in accordance with Part VI of the Local
    Government and Housing Act 1989. The Account is required to be self-financing and cannot
    subsidise or be subsidised by the General Fund
    .
    The HRA Income and Expenditure
    Statement shows the economic cost in the year of providing housing services in accordance
    with generally accepted accounting practices, rather than the amount to be funded from
    rents and government grants. The Council charges rents to cover expenditure in accordance
    with regulations; this may be different from the accounting cost. The increase or decrease in
    the year, on the basis of which rents are raised, is shown in the Movement on the HRA
    Statement.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jul 17, 7:20 PM
    • 14,789 Posts
    • 13,143 Thanks
    AdrianC
    As explained to you in a previous thread, council housing is not subsidised by council tax payers. Council housing is self financing.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    Perhaps you might care to re-read what I wrote?

    The RTB discount does provide a potential subsidy for the OP's inheritance by council tax payers, since the OP's father exercising that discount will undoubtedly result in increased costs to the local authority.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 9th Jul 17, 7:22 PM
    • 6,061 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    The question is, should I appear as a joint tenant in the application form?
    Originally posted by Pk King X11
    Are you currently a joint tenant? If not then no.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 9th Jul 17, 7:26 PM
    • 6,061 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Perhaps you might care to re-read what I wrote?

    The RTB discount does provide a potential subsidy for the OP's inheritance by council tax payers, since the OP's father exercising that discount will undoubtedly result in increased costs to the local authority.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    How?........
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jul 17, 7:32 PM
    • 14,789 Posts
    • 13,143 Thanks
    AdrianC
    How?........
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    Quite simply because either the people who would have been housed by the council need to be housed elsewhere, resulting in higher HB payments, or the council need to spend more than they've received on replacing that stock.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Jul 17, 7:45 PM
    • 35,675 Posts
    • 150,329 Thanks
    silvercar
    Quite simply because either the people who would have been housed by the council need to be housed elsewhere, resulting in higher HB payments, or the council need to spend more than they've received on replacing that stock.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Only if the people being housed rely on HB payments. They may be workers self financing but in need of a home.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
    • 35,675 Posts
    • 150,329 Thanks
    silvercar
    Apart from a possible increase to your eventual inheritance subsidised by council tax payers and those denied a future council home, is there any actual benefit for your father in owning his flat, with the increased costs and decreased security of tenure that carries?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Once the mortgage is paid off, there will be no rent or mortgage to pay.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 9th Jul 17, 7:53 PM
    • 6,061 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Quite simply because either the people who would have been housed by the council need to be housed elsewhere, resulting in higher HB payments, or the council need to spend more than they've received on replacing that stock.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    You're assuming these other people will receive housing benefit.
    Any money spent replacing these homes will be repaid from rental income. Thats how self financing works.

    You're intent on finding reasons to claim council tax payers fund social housing.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 9th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    • 15,033 Posts
    • 21,357 Thanks
    antrobus
    ..The question is, should I appear as a joint tenant in the application form? Am I required? What are the benefits of being a joint tenant? Will it prevent me from getting government's benefits later on when I'm buying my own first home (probably with the help of my dad)?

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by Pk King X11
    G_M has given you the correct answer.

    If your father can qualify for a mortgage on his own, then he can purchase this RTB property in his own name. You can pay your father rent, to help him clear the mortgage "quickly". You can make whatever private arrangement you wish with your father regarding any help he later provides.
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