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  • FIRST POST
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 8th Jul 17, 7:58 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 0Thanks
    vertigo5000
    Dismissal - Unauthorized Absence.
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:58 PM
    Dismissal - Unauthorized Absence. 8th Jul 17 at 7:58 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi this is a long and messy incident.

    I've been dismissed for 35 days Unauthorized Absence.

    I've made a timeline. hopefully it makes sense;

    16th - 23rd May - Self Certification.
    24th - 31st May - Doctors note.
    *31st - I emailed management stating I was fit for work and could return on 1st June.
    *1st June - email from management stating I could not return until 9th June.
    1st June - 9th June -I was told to say off and rest. I Forgot to send a reply email about returning on 9th June so my return was cancelled and rearranged by management on the 7th June to a welfare meeting on the 15th June.
    *12th - I emailed management saying I would be there on 15th June.
    15th June - I missed the meeting due to seeing my GP to get my sick note.
    *16th June - I emailed management apologizing for missing the meeting, I put in email I was fit for work immediately.
    *16th June - Management emailed me and arranged new meeting for the 20th June. This wasn't a welfare meeting, it was an investigation for 28 days unauthorized absence
    (my self certification and doctors note from 16th May to the 31st May was being included as unauthorized absences.)
    *20th June - I attended the investigation meeting. During the meeting I made management aware again I was fit for work immediately. Management then asked me for a 'fit for work' note.
    20th June - 6th July - No work was offered and no welfare meeting.
    30th June - I received a disciplinary hearing letter for the 6th July.
    *6th July - I was dismissed for 35 unauthorized absences from 1st June to 5th July.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Disciplinary Officer at the hearing was a friend of the Manager.
    When I tried to present evidence at the disciplinary hearing it was ignored because I had typed it on a computer and "it was printed".

    I don't understand why I've been dismissed for so many unauthorized absences. Were all those days unauthorized?

    I told them loads of times that I was fit for work but I wasn't given any shifts. I have since found out that management had put me on the rota as SSP from 1st June to 5th July, even though I kept telling them I was fit for work.

    Throughout the whole incident the management had been asking me to bring a fit for work note before I would be given any shifts. I asked ACAS about this and they said I don't require a fit for work note and I can return when I feel ready.
    To add to this my GP was on leave during my sickness so I had to wait until he returned before I could get the sick note for 24th May to 31st May.

    I wasn't allowed or offered any shifts during the whole of June and beginning of July.

    The dismissal was only a few days ago and I haven't received the appeal letter yet, so I should get it this coming week.

    Is this worth an appeal? Any advice would be great.

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 8th Jul 17, 8:02 PM
    • 2,073 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:02 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:02 PM
    How long have they employed you for? Less than 2yrs forget it.
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    • 3,723 Posts
    • 6,093 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    How long have you worked there? Zero hours contract?

    How do you forget to answer emails and attend meetings?
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:05 PM
    I was employed with them for 15 months.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Jul 17, 8:09 PM
    • 3,723 Posts
    • 6,093 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:09 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:09 PM
    I was employed with them for 15 months.
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    No point. Assuming you were an employee even. You can be dismissed for pretty much most reasons - or no reason at all.
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 8th Jul 17, 8:14 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:14 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:14 PM
    40 hour permanent contract. I did write a reply email but forgot to send it. I didn't forget to attend the meeting I went to get the GP sick note.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 8th Jul 17, 8:20 PM
    • 1,202 Posts
    • 2,552 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:20 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:20 PM
    40 hour permanent contract. I did write a reply email but forgot to send it. I didn't forget to attend the meeting I went to get the GP sick note.
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    You agreed to attend a meeting at work and simply failed to show up. You didn't even email them until the next day. Surely you can see that is not acceptable?
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 8th Jul 17, 8:38 PM
    • 29,951 Posts
    • 18,970 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:38 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:38 PM
    40 hour permanent contract. I did write a reply email but forgot to send it. I didn't forget to attend the meeting I went to get the GP sick note.
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    Yes you went to the GP for the sick note but you missed the meeting. If you were the employer and a member of staff missed the meeting would you be annoyed ?

    My tip of the day is get a !!!!!!! diary or use the calender that's in your phone, it's much easier using one, can use it for other things too.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 8th Jul 17, 9:34 PM
    • 4,844 Posts
    • 6,070 Thanks
    theoretica
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:34 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:34 PM
    At what point in this did your employers actually get your doctor's note?
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • w06
    • By w06 8th Jul 17, 9:44 PM
    • 285 Posts
    • 401 Thanks
    w06
    why did you miss a meeting on 15th June to collect a sick note when you've said you were fit for work 2 weeks earlier and said so again the following day?
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 9th Jul 17, 1:32 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    Thanks for the not so nice replies and advice but I'm not in 'de nile'.

    yes, I should have been dismissed. Not arguing that.

    But, no, I am not to blame for all 35 unauthorized absences.
    This is I'm thinking to appeal.

    Most employers ask to contact the most recent employment for a reference. If this employer is contacted they will give potentially misleading information on me and that's libel.

    My dismissal was for 35 unauthorized absences.
    But I count only 5 that can be directly attributed to me then again, obviously I'll be bias to myself.

    So from the timeline how many absences do you think can be attributed to me and why?
    (This'll be one of my questions when I apply to go on Blind Date.)


    ...It's like a 'Where's Waldo' for unauthorized absences...

    Many kindnesses and thanks.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Jul 17, 2:48 AM
    • 4,649 Posts
    • 9,313 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Everything after the 9th is your fault.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 9th Jul 17, 3:24 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    including from the 21st june to the 6th july?
    I did ask for work but I wasn't offered any.
    How can I be blamed for that absence?
    • TyreLever
    • By TyreLever 9th Jul 17, 7:31 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    TyreLever
    including from the 21st june to the 6th july?
    I did ask for work but I wasn't offered any.
    How can I be blamed for that absence?
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    Your previous shenanigans. You have already demonstrated you're not a reliable employee. Why would any employer want to offer you work after all that has happened? Employers heavily rely on people turning up to work and you couldn't even attend a meeting for the sake of a sick note!

    Convince me (and others in this thread) that in the long run, you will be a very productive, dependable and trustworthy employee? After all, this is what you will be trying to do whenever you fill out a job application.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 9th Jul 17, 7:38 AM
    • 2,830 Posts
    • 1,478 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt

    Most employers ask to contact the most recent employment for a reference. If this employer is contacted they will give potentially misleading information on me and that's libel.

    .
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    Not if you choose the right scummy employer to work for.

    Did know of someone home and dry, actually miraculously recovered when they got one of those start next day type of jobs from quite a desirable employer. After half a year of hardly being in work they must have been laughing knowing the employer only would ever confirm start and finish date.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    • 3,723 Posts
    • 6,093 Thanks
    sangie595
    Thanks for the not so nice replies and advice but I'm not in 'de nile'.

    yes, I should have been dismissed. Not arguing that.

    But, no, I am not to blame for all 35 unauthorized absences.
    This is I'm thinking to appeal.

    Most employers ask to contact the most recent employment for a reference. If this employer is contacted they will give potentially misleading information on me and that's libel.

    My dismissal was for 35 unauthorized absences.
    But I count only 5 that can be directly attributed to me then again, obviously I'll be bias to myself.

    So from the timeline how many absences do you think can be attributed to me and why?
    (This'll be one of my questions when I apply to go on Blind Date.)


    ...It's like a 'Where's Waldo' for unauthorized absences...

    Many kindnesses and thanks.
    Originally posted by vertigo5000
    Armchair law is never purposeful. You will not be suing anyone for libel unless you have at least a spare £10k just to start a case! If you had that sort of money lying around got wouldn't care about the dismissal. And I'm still not convinced that you are an employee- you keep referring to needing to be offered work to be able to return. Employees are not offered work, they just go back to work.

    Assuming that this is not trolling, then I don't agree with you. For a start off, appealing is pointless because you can't claim unfair dismissal. They don't want you back, they won't take you back, and they don't believe you either. Unsurprisingly. You self-certified for a week, which basically means that they have to take your word for it that you are sick (and they obviously don't believe that). The reason that this sounds most unlikely is that, apparently, your GP and the whole of the rest of the NHS was on holiday and you didn't provide a fit note. A fundamental principle of being off sick is providing a fit note! And to add to the oddity of this, you were so sick that you needed weeks off work but didn't need to go to the doctor, because if you had you'd have had that elusive fit note! And a back dated sick note looks highly suspicious.

    Then you tell them to drop everything because you'll be back at work tomorrow if they can just arrange their business around your sudden availability. They must have been so grateful! They tell you when to return to work and you fail to confirm the arrangements with them. They then arrange a meeting with you, and you purposefully don't turn up because the only time that you can collect a fit note (bearing in mind that you have said that you have been fully fit for the last two weeks, so why you needed one on the first place is beyond me) is at exactly the same time as the meeting you have arranged with them and confirmed you will attend. And you give them no warning that you won't attend but drop them a line the next day!

    Seriously? The whole thing is unbelievable. So it isn't surprising that the employer struggled to believe it too. If you want to waste your time appealing, go for it. But it is a waste of your time. And as for suing them for libel, forget it. You can't afford it and even if you could, I'm not convinced a court would believe this either!
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 9th Jul 17, 8:34 AM
    • 15,786 Posts
    • 39,466 Thanks
    FBaby
    Why do you want to appeal something that will make no difference to the outcome?

    Your excuse that you couldn't come to the meeting because you had a doc appointment without warning them is enough alone to show that you are getting your priorities wrong. Surely you could have asked to another date/time than what was the worse possible to go during all that time.

    It sounds as if you felt that you should be the one holding the strings and your employers to go along with what you dictated. That's probably why they want to dismiss you, whatever the reasons.
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 9th Jul 17, 1:13 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    Thanks for the replies. I wanted a view to the situation from someone else's eyes. No, I'm not trolling.

    Back dated sick notes are suspicious? So me, my GP and my surgeon (a professor) are liars?

    Yes, I have a 40 hour written, signed contract. The management said I would not be allowed to return without a fit for work note. I called 'fit for work' the government organisation and they said I do not need one.

    Anyway, considering all plagues and famines are my fault..

    From 1st June to 6th July I took pictures of the rotas at work and management had put me through as SSP right up to the dismissal.

    So why did they do that then?
    • vertigo5000
    • By vertigo5000 9th Jul 17, 1:23 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    vertigo5000
    Here is the link that they gave when I called and told them that the management wasn't allowing me back to work without a 'fit note'.

    Page 9:
    "Does my employee need a fit note saying
    they are fit for work?
    No. People do not need to be signed back to work
    and there is no option on the fit note to do so. If
    your employee’s doctor assesses that they are fit
    for work, they will not be issued with a fit note."

    w w w. gov. uk/ government/ publications/ fit-note-guidance-for-employers-and-line-managers

    I had to put spaces coz it wont let me post with links as a new user.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 9th Jul 17, 1:31 PM
    • 3,899 Posts
    • 4,226 Thanks
    robatwork
    The precis is that you made a couple of serious mistakes and have been sacked.

    No, it's not worth an appeal.
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