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  • FIRST POST
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 8th Jul 17, 7:01 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Ron2017
    ESA assessment confusion
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:01 PM
    ESA assessment confusion 8th Jul 17 at 7:01 PM
    Hi, I currently have a mandatory reconsideration for pip going through. During this process it has thrown up another confusing situation. I have been in receipt of ESA since 2014, during this time they have written to my GP twice for a report, which he has filled out and sent back. I have never had an appointment for an assessment. Since being on ESA I have been receiving roughly £70 per week but someone whom is helping me told me that this is wrong. I gave them a call and someone from the benefits centre called me back and said that I have basically slipped through a gap and they have no idea why I have not been sent for an assessment or been declared unfit for work and been awarded a higher rate. They also told me they have no idea what will happen in this situation.
    I have been sent an ESA 50, which they told me I would and that they will try and speed up the process for me. Does anybody have any idea what happens in such a situation, thanks very much.
Page 1
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 8th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 4,442 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:25 PM
    I don't know for sure, but I'd assume you'd be treated like anyone else who'd spend an extended period in the assessment phase. i.e. You'll be assessed; declared fit for work or placed in a group; if put in a group you'd receive a lump sum of the difference between the assessment rate and the group rate, backdated to the 14th week of your claim.
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 8th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ron2017
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:32 PM
    Thanks for the answer. It seems quite strange that they can basically keep paying me for three years and nobody questioned why.
    • tazwhoever
    • By tazwhoever 8th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
    • 788 Posts
    • 198 Thanks
    tazwhoever
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
    OP - did you receive the assessment rate without providing fit notes? It's a must to provide fit notes for assessment rates. You are lucky!
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 9th Jul 17, 1:37 AM
    • 1,544 Posts
    • 1,650 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:37 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:37 AM
    Info on completing the ESA50 form:
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/fill-in-form/

    Esa points system:
    http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php

    Following your WCA a DWP decision maker will determine if your ESA continues, and if so which group you are allocated to (WRAG or SG).
    If you haven't completed the ESA50 it may be worth seeing if you can get help with it.
    • jessex1990
    • By jessex1990 9th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jessex1990
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
    Also as you have been claiming from 2014 you will be entitled to the old rate of the WRAG not the new one which is the same as JSA.
    • Anneinjustices
    • By Anneinjustices 18th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Anneinjustices
    • #7
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    Hello Ron2017,
    I am a newbie here but have been currently investigating people that have been on JSA and through long term illness (Medical Certificate) have been moved to ESA after 13 weeks being on JSA. Once on ESA the new rules state that people on ESA will at some point have to have a Health Assessment done by and advisory. In the case of one case study claimant he was assessed 1 month of being on ESA. Which resulted in his medical certificate being over ruled and his benefit payments being suspended/stopped with the right to an appeal within 1 month of the decision. Even though he has a valid Doctors Certificate and is not fit for work.

    His Assessment was done in an office with this examination: 1: Stand up & sit down. 2: Stand up and touch his toes, 3: Raise arms above his head and 4: Raise each leg. At no point was any apparatus used. He was asked about his illness and medication he was on. That was it. 2 months went by and he then received a letter stating that he was fit for work and all benefits stopped, even though his current medical certificate was still valid along with a further one obtained from the Doctor due to further on going medical examinations done by his Doctor and the Hospital due to worsening condition of his health since his examination.
    After further investigation by us it turns out he is not alone as confirmed by a whistle blower and a Doctor, it also turns out that for everyone that goes from JSA to ESA it is recorded as another one off the unemployment government list, then when he is taken off the ESA again he is recorded as another one of the government unemployment list! and of course the government are saving money.
    The problem with all of this is people who genuinely are sick as confirmed by Doctors/Hospital who use machines (in the case of this man CT Scans, ECG, Blood tests, Neurology etc etc) and are not fit for work have to go through all of this which in some cases put their lives in more danger due to their illness and stress (which is a killer) that they are going through.

    Hence we are trying to raise awareness of our findings along with fighting for those who have/are going through this along with seeking compensation, as quite frankly this is not right.

    So reference to what has happened to you please be aware of this and good luck.

    The above details evidence has only just come to light in July 2017 but we are finding cases that are now dating back to before this.
    Regards Anne
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 18th Jul 17, 5:41 PM
    • 1,677 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #8
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:41 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:41 PM
    Hello Ron2017,
    I am a newbie here but have been currently investigating people that have been on JSA and through long term illness (Medical Certificate) have been moved to ESA after 13 weeks being on JSA. Once on ESA the new rules state that people on ESA will at some point have to have a Health Assessment done by and advisory. In the case of one case study claimant he was assessed 1 month of being on ESA. Which resulted in his medical certificate being over ruled and his benefit payments being suspended/stopped with the right to an appeal within 1 month of the decision. Even though he has a valid Doctors Certificate and is not fit for work.

    His Assessment was done in an office with this examination: 1: Stand up & sit down. 2: Stand up and touch his toes, 3: Raise arms above his head and 4: Raise each leg. At no point was any apparatus used. He was asked about his illness and medication he was on. That was it. 2 months went by and he then received a letter stating that he was fit for work and all benefits stopped, even though his current medical certificate was still valid along with a further one obtained from the Doctor due to further on going medical examinations done by his Doctor and the Hospital due to worsening condition of his health since his examination.
    After further investigation by us it turns out he is not alone as confirmed by a whistle blower and a Doctor, it also turns out that for everyone that goes from JSA to ESA it is recorded as another one off the unemployment government list, then when he is taken off the ESA again he is recorded as another one of the government unemployment list! and of course the government are saving money.
    The problem with all of this is people who genuinely are sick as confirmed by Doctors/Hospital who use machines (in the case of this man CT Scans, ECG, Blood tests, Neurology etc etc) and are not fit for work have to go through all of this which in some cases put their lives in more danger due to their illness and stress (which is a killer) that they are going through.

    Hence we are trying to raise awareness of our findings along with fighting for those who have/are going through this along with seeking compensation, as quite frankly this is not right.

    So reference to what has happened to you please be aware of this and good luck.

    The above details evidence has only just come to light in July 2017 but we are finding cases that are now dating back to before this.
    Regards Anne
    Originally posted by Anneinjustices
    What are you talking about?? I was never on JSA before i started claiming ESA and what's these NEW rules you keep saying about people being sent for a health assessment??? NEW rules??? Ummm no, you're wrong yet again. Ive been claiming ESA for well over 5 years and to my knowledge there's always been an assessment....
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 18th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • 2,005 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Chrysalis
    • #9
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Jul 17, 5:53 PM
    An ESA50 is the first stage of the assessment process, make sure this is sent back because you "will" lose your benefit it it isnt.

    After that they will look at your ESA50 answers as well as any other information you provided, they may possibly contact your GP or other HCP's but this isnt something they have to do. They will then usually either reward your claim or ask you in for a face to face. It is possible they can turn you down based on the ESA50 alone, but if they believe you to not qualify typically a face to face is called to verify this. Consider a face to face a last chance saloon.

    On a face to face assessors are usually expecting people to be fit for work, but it doesnt mean thats what the decision will be, just be aware if you are called in the onus is on you to prove that you meet the ESA descriptors.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 18th Jul 17, 6:00 PM
    • 1,677 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    poppy12345
    An ESA50 is the first stage of the assessment process, make sure this is sent back because you "will" lose your benefit it it isnt.

    After that they will look at your ESA50 answers as well as any other information you provided, they may possibly contact your GP or other HCP's but this isnt something they have to do. They will then usually either reward your claim or ask you in for a face to face. It is possible they can turn you down based on the ESA50 alone, but if they believe you to not qualify typically a face to face is called to verify this. Consider a face to face a last chance saloon.

    On a face to face assessors are usually expecting people to be fit for work, but it doesnt mean thats what the decision will be, just be aware if you are called in the onus is on you to prove that you meet the ESA descriptors.
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    You can not be found fit for work without a face 2 face assessment.
    • PrinceD
    • By PrinceD 18th Jul 17, 6:11 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    PrinceD
    Hi,
    It has happened - my mother experienced it, the decision was overturned, but it does happen
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 18th Jul 17, 6:16 PM
    • 1,544 Posts
    • 1,650 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    What are you talking about??
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    Indeed.

    Today's prize for the most bizarre post goes to.................. (drum roll)
    ........................Anne.

    ESA has always had the WCA assessment from its introduction in 2008 (for new claims).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_and_Support_Allowance

    But "The above details evidence has only just come to light in July 2017 but we are finding cases that are now dating back to before this." says Anne.

    Here are some reports from CAB:

    This dates to 2014 - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/campaigns/current_campaigns/recent-campaigns/Make-ESA-fit-for-work-campaign/make-esa-fit-for-work/
    This from 2012 - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/media/press-releases/esa-citizens-advice-bureaux-see-sickness-and-disability-benefit-problems-soar/
    "Earlier in 2012, Citizens Advice published research indicating that many seriously ill and disabled people are being wrongly denied benefits because of serious inaccuracies in an unacceptably high number of medical assessment reports used to decide who qualifies for ESA."
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/policy/policy-research-topics/welfare-policy-research-surveys-and-consultation-responses/welfare-policy-research/right-first-time/
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 18th Jul 17, 6:19 PM
    • 1,677 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Thanks Alice, you save the day agian! I thought i was going completely crazy lol
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 18th Jul 17, 6:33 PM
    • 1,544 Posts
    • 1,650 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Hi poppy ,

    I've just noticed a similar post from "Anne" on another thread.
    I think you are right in your comment there, it certainty looks as if it might be some sort of scam (but I haven't looked at it thoroughly).

    Penitent wrote (I hope he won't mind me quoting parts of his post)....
    "If you have this mind-blowing information, why don't you approach one of the big disability campaign groups (who have the resources/contacts to publicise and pursue this) rather than asking for donations to do it yourself? They've already done countless investigations regarding the WCA, the DWP and the various assessment companies.

    Edit:
    Having now skimmed through your page, I'm even less impressed. It's so blathery and all over the place, I'm not entirely clear on what you want my money for. Is it an education campaign about appeals? Or about Bell's Palsy? Are you raising money for the Bell's Palsy guy to appeal? Are you trying to take over the work that the CAB, law centres and various other orgs are already doing? "

    I've now followed your lead and reported "Anne".

    Bw.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 18th Jul 17, 6:42 PM
    • 1,677 Posts
    • 1,507 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Hi poppy ,

    I've just noticed a similar post from "Anne" on another thread.
    I think you are right in your comment there, it certainty looks as if it might be some sort of scam (but I haven't looked at it thoroughly).

    Penitent wrote (I hope he won't mind me quoting parts of his post)....
    "If you have this mind-blowing information, why don't you approach one of the big disability campaign groups (who have the resources/contacts to publicise and pursue this) rather than asking for donations to do it yourself? They've already done countless investigations regarding the WCA, the DWP and the various assessment companies.

    Edit:
    Having now skimmed through your page, I'm even less impressed. It's so blathery and all over the place, I'm not entirely clear on what you want my money for. Is it an education campaign about appeals? Or about Bell's Palsy? Are you raising money for the Bell's Palsy guy to appeal? Are you trying to take over the work that the CAB, law centres and various other orgs are already doing? "

    I've now followed your lead and reported "Anne".

    Bw.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Thank you once again Alice! "Anne's" posts clearly make no sense what so ever to me. I kept looking at them and thought i was going crazy, because i've never heard of anything like this before. Your posts are always spot on Alice and i appreciate your support for this. It's a scam for sure, no doubt in my mind.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 18th Jul 17, 6:54 PM
    • 1,509 Posts
    • 4,442 Thanks
    Penitent
    But "The above details evidence has only just come to light in July 2017 but we are finding cases that are now dating back to before this." says Anne.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    That's the bit I'm finding most bizarre. People have known about the inadequacies and dangers of the WCA for years. We know assessors ignore sick notes, medical evidence, the blatant things in front of their eyes, etc. It's like someone posting that it's just come to light in July 2017 that smoking is bad for your health and asking for money to run the smoking cessation programmes that you can already use for free on the NHS.
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 18th Jul 17, 11:03 PM
    • 2,005 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Chrysalis
    You can not be found fit for work without a face 2 face assessment.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    supposedly which is why I said face to face is usually used, but there has been a tiny amount of reports where it has happened.
    • jessex1990
    • By jessex1990 21st Jul 17, 8:09 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jessex1990
    I was on JSA and moved onto ESA as the job center manager said that from my advisors observations they thought I was too unwell for work and should be claiming ESA instead. I didn't know that this benefit even existed at the time and she was right a visit to my doctor and he provided the certificate. I was in the assessment phase for something like 18 months (there was a massive backlog apparently) but all my money was back paid to week 13 of my claim to ESA.
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