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  • FIRST POST
    • Icansmellthesea
    • By Icansmellthesea 8th Jul 17, 4:57 PM
    • 3Posts
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    Icansmellthesea
    Rental deposit and tenancy insurance
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 17, 4:57 PM
    Rental deposit and tenancy insurance 8th Jul 17 at 4:57 PM
    Hello all,

    New to this forum but have a few burning questions regarding a recent tenancy we finished.

    Finally got onto the property ladder and move in last week. The property we moved out of was privately rented where we have £995 deposit held with Deposit Protection Service. Before we handed the keys back we cleaned the house inside and out and paid to have all the carpets professionally cleaned costing £195.

    18 months or so ago hot ash by accident managed to get onto the carpet in the lounge causing permanent damage which we owned up to. The damage covers around a half metre sq where there are a few black marks etc. So we are well aware money would be deducted from the deposit.

    The landlady want to replace the whole carpet new which is fair enough but expect us to pay for the full amount for the replacement and fitting at £645. We moved into the propert late 2014 and the carpet has been there since around 2010. From reading the DPS website tenants are not expected to pay the full amount for replacing damaged fittings if they have been there some time before tenants moved in and that the apportion rule should apply i.e tenants only contribute towards the cost of the replacement depending on the age and condition at the time of replacement.

    I've put this to the landlady but she has come back saying in the small print of the signed rental agreement we 'agreed' to take our insurance up to amount of £2500 to cover for accidental damage to fixtures and fittings and that we should claim it back from that. I'm just in the middle of looking up the contents insurance to see if that's covered.

    It would seem odd to have the standard house deposit and also the requirement for separate tenancy insurance which would cover the same thing.

    Is the the requirement for tenancy insurance legally binding if a standard deposit is in place?

    If so, is the landlady allowed to then allowed to claim the full amount of £645 from our deposit and then for us to claim it back from insurance? Me thinks not.

    What should be the proper procedure in this case?

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • aneary
    • By aneary 8th Jul 17, 5:34 PM
    • 506 Posts
    • 356 Thanks
    aneary
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 5:34 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 5:34 PM
    Not sure about the legal standing but I dropped an iron on the carpet on the rental property I'm in. The carpet was rubbish and very cheap, I calmed on my insurance under accidental damage and they offered to fit and replace the new carpet or a cash price of £400 I had an excess of £100.

    My LL an absolute arsehole wanted the carpet to be the same colour as the bedroom (there is crap laminated flooring between the two rooms) I gave him the option of getting the new carpet (sent the colour options) or I'd take the cash amount and argue the amount I'd have to pay via the deposit company I was convinced it would be less than £400. He took the new carpet.

    I would go through your insurance if you can there may be a time limit and give your LL the options for the replacement. If not argue the amount via the deposit scheme you will have to pay towards the amount but not the full amount.

    The reason for insurance and deposit is that you could take out insurance to show when you sign the contract and then cancel the next day, or you don't renew. A deposit won't cover all damage you could cause, insurance won't pay for non deposit or rent. Also you and only you can claim on insurance the LL can't.
    • htaylor16
    • By htaylor16 8th Jul 17, 5:58 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    htaylor16
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 5:58 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 5:58 PM
    Don't go through your insurance. She can not charge you like for like, she has to take into account the age of the carpet the amount of damage, go through arbitration and it will be ruled in your favour. Did you take pictures of the damage carpet.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 8th Jul 17, 6:35 PM
    • 15,824 Posts
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    FBaby
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 6:35 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 6:35 PM
    Ignore her and take the case to the ADR. She won't get her way. She'll get something, but certainly not the value of the full replacement. That's ridiculous to expect this.
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 8th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • 2,600 Posts
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    cjdavies
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    Do not go through your insurance, it's what your deposit is for.

    Follow the appeal process whoever has protected your deposit and let them decide how much is fair to deduct (it won't be the full cost of a new carpet).
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
    • 41,106 Posts
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
    So a 7 year old carpet? What quality? If an average quality for a let property the carpet probably had a life expectancy of 10-12 years. Let's be generous (to the landlord) and say 14 (easy maths!).

    So half its life is already gone - the LL has had the use of the carpet for half its projected life.

    Claiming the full replacement cost would be 'betterment' (a legal term). She can only charge a maximum of half its replacement cost.

    Have you reserached the current prices of similar carpets? And fitting? She can claim half.

    Offer her that. If she refuses, then use the secheme arbitartion service.

    read:

    * Deposits:
    payment, protection and return
    Last edited by G_M; 09-07-2017 at 1:14 PM.
    • Icansmellthesea
    • By Icansmellthesea 9th Jul 17, 8:23 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Icansmellthesea
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 8:23 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 17, 8:23 AM
    Appreciate everyone's feedback here.

    I'm in the process of responding to the LL saying that the costs must come from the deposit and not through insurance as that's what the deposit is there for.

    It seems having tenancy insurance is a grey area. I read another post that it's not enforceable and read a trading standards document stating it can only be advised and not a requirement.

    Im assuming the 'betterment' rule still applies even with tenancy insurance?
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    • 5,808 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 17, 8:27 AM
    Im assuming the 'betterment' rule still applies even with tenancy insurance?
    Originally posted by Icansmellthesea
    Yes, I expect the cover would be for what you're liable for and no more.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Jul 17, 1:22 PM
    • 41,106 Posts
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:22 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 17, 1:22 PM
    The insurance is a red herring.

    * If you cause damage, you are liable.

    * the amount you are liable for depends on the item, its value, the extent of the damage, the age of the item, etc.

    * the amount you are liable for does NOT depend on how you pay: cash, deposit deduction, insurance claim., crate of beer etc

    * It's up to you to decide how to pay, and whether to claim off insurance which you may or may not have, and may or may not wish to do.

    * Decide the amount you and the LL agree is a reasonable amount, then either

    a) claim that from your insurer and demand your deposit back in full
    b) pay her cash and demand your deposit back in full
    c) or more sensibly, contact the deposit scheme and authorise them to deduct that amount from your deposit

    * if you can't agree an amount, refer it to the deposit scheme arbitrators as a dispute.
    • Icansmellthesea
    • By Icansmellthesea 9th Jul 17, 4:29 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Icansmellthesea
    Thanks GM. We've actually realised the original contract signed November 2014 was valid for 12 months and we never signed a contract extension. We verbally agreed to 12 month extension in Nov 2016.

    We were given notice in April this year (3 days after the birth of our son) as she needed to move back in. That's when we decided to buy.

    So with no signed tenancy agreement does that change anything?
    • mrsammyp
    • By mrsammyp 9th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    mrsammyp
    DPS will work out it based on the following formula (amounts may vary)...

    a) Cost of similar replacement carpet = £645
    b) Actual age of existing carpet = 7 years
    c) Average useful lifespan of that type of carpet = 10 years
    d) Residual lifespan of carpet calculated as ‘c)’ less ‘b)’ = 3 years
    e) Depreciation of value rate calculated as ‘a)’ divided by ‘c)’ = £64.50 per year
    f) Reasonable apportionment cost to tenant calculated as ‘d)’ times ‘e)’ = £193.50
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 41,106 Posts
    • 47,252 Thanks
    G_M
    Thanks GM. We've actually realised the original contract signed November 2014 was valid for 12 months and we never signed a contract extension. We verbally agreed to 12 month extension in Nov 2016.

    We were given notice in April this year (3 days after the birth of our son) as she needed to move back in. That's when we decided to buy.

    So with no signed tenancy agreement does that change anything?
    Originally posted by Icansmellthesea
    No.



    And no again.
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