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    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 11:43 AM
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    First time buyer lauren
    Vw auto hold fault - do I have rights?
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 17, 11:43 AM
    Vw auto hold fault - do I have rights? 8th Jul 17 at 11:43 AM
    Hi,

    I bought an ex demo Mk 2 Tiguan around 10 - 11 months ago, after 2 weeks it developed a fault with the auto hold which when trying to move off from stationary sticks and either won't budge or sticks for a few seconds and shoots off which obviously is dangerous. It's been in my local Vw branch over 7 times for the same fault, each time they've said they can't see anything wrong with it, fast forward a couple of months and the car hasn't been TOO bad a little bit of sticking every so often but nothing as major as it had been. until I booked it in for a service... there's been a recall on the auto hold (a software update) I collected my car yesterday feeling relieved that the problem was sorted out, I drove out of the car park and it was worse than ever! Ive literally had enough of it and am at the point where I want to hand the car back! I've been informed by a family member who works for part of the Vw group that there is no fix for the problem and all they can do is keep fobbing me off.
    The garage I bought the car from is quite a way away, around an hour drive there and back and I don't feel comfortable driving there. I've lost all confidence in the car and don't want to risk a drive that far with a problem with the breaks especially with two little ones in tow.
    Does anyone have any advice please?
Page 1
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 8th Jul 17, 11:51 AM
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    k3lvc
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 11:51 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 11:51 AM
    Given they've driven it and can't spot a fault are your expectations on what it should be doing wrong ?

    I've had it on a few different cars and my latest feels different to other makes/models but still does the job. Have you tried a different Tiguan to see whether it's model specific ?

    If the garage state no issue then you're really in the realms of getting (and paying for) an independent report stating the fault in order to go back to them

    and p.s. don't throw the emotion of the poor children into this
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
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    DUTR
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 11:56 AM
    Given they've driven it and can't spot a fault are your expectations on what it should be doing wrong ?

    I've had it on a few different cars and my latest feels different to other makes/models but still does the job. Have you tried a different Tiguan to see whether it's model specific ?

    If the garage state no issue then you're really in the realms of getting (and paying for) an independent report stating the fault in order to go back to them

    and p.s. don't throw the emotion of the poor children into this
    Originally posted by k3lvc
    Agreed on the expectations, I have AH on my Golf, it's brilliant, before pulling off I gently touch the accelerator to release the brake and then just drive as normal, I'm suspecting the OP like ithers on another forum, are just 'flooring' the accelerator from standstill, I'm sure they wouldn't do that with a regular handbrake .
    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 12:00 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    First time buyer lauren
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:00 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:00 PM
    Definitely not, i expect it to drive... sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. Its aparently a known fault but one without a fix. They've admitted now that there is a fault with it which is why the recall was released but it hasn't fixed it and has definitely made the problem worse. Yesterday it was almost undriveable - my partner also went for a drive in it and the bleeding thing wouldn't budge off the drive it took 3 attempts of putting back into gear and faffing with the clutch, we've had this car for 10 months and know how to drive it and drive it the same each time.
    We're aware if the door is not shut properly or your seatbelt isn't on the auto hold doesn't work.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
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    DUTR
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    Definitely not, i expect it to drive... sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. Its aparently a known fault but one without a fix. They've admitted now that there is a fault with it which is why the recall was released but it hasn't fixed it and has definitely made the problem worse. Yesterday it was almost undriveable - my partner also went for a drive in it and the bleeding thing wouldn't budge off the drive it took 3 attempts of putting back into gear and faffing with the clutch, we've had this car for 10 months and know how to drive it and drive it the same each time.
    We're aware if the door is not shut properly or your seatbelt isn't on the auto hold doesn't work.
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    Were either both of you wearing the seatbelt when attempting to move off? If the seatbelt is not in use then the car won't move, my friend's GF had a Tiguan with AH and that was no issue either (10 plate iirc) .
    Is your car manual or DSG?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
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    AdrianC
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    If you don't feel comfortable driving it with the kids in the car, then leave the kids with somebody, or pay to get the car transported. Or simply turn the auto-hold off...

    You are dealing with the supplier under the manufacturer warranty - you do not need to deal with the same supplier over that, you can use any VW dealer.

    You also have your statutory rights, which are against the dealer you bought it from. You can demonstrate that the fault was present very soon after the time of purchase, and there's no issue with proving that they seem unable to resolve it. I suspect that threatening them with the statutory rights will see an offer to buy the car back, at which point it simply becomes a question of a fair price for the use you've given the car.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 8th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    • 1,752 Posts
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    k3lvc
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:08 PM
    Definitely not, i expect it to drive... sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. Its aparently a known fault but one without a fix. They've admitted now that there is a fault with it which is why the recall was released but it hasn't fixed it and has definitely made the problem worse. Yesterday it was almost undriveable - my partner also went for a drive in it and the bleeding thing wouldn't budge off the drive it took 3 attempts of putting back into gear and faffing with the clutch, we've had this car for 10 months and know how to drive it and drive it the same each time.
    We're aware if the door is not shut properly or your seatbelt isn't on the auto hold doesn't work.
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    So now the story is changing - there may well be a technical update for the auto hold but there's no immediate sign of a recall

    If the problem is as severe as you're saying yet the dealer can't replicate it then next time it happens on the way that you're suggesting (i.e. stuck on the driveway) then call VW recovery and let them deal with it
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
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    DUTR
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:16 PM
    If you don't feel comfortable driving it with the kids in the car, then leave the kids with somebody, or pay to get the car transported. Or simply turn the auto-hold off...



    You are dealing with the supplier under the manufacturer warranty - you do not need to deal with the same supplier over that, you can use any VW dealer.


    You also have your statutory rights, which are against the dealer you bought it from. You can demonstrate that the fault was present very soon after the time of purchase, and there's no issue with proving that they seem unable to resolve it. I suspect that threatening them with the statutory rights will see an offer to buy the car back, at which point it simply becomes a question of a fair price for the use you've given the car.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    I too suspect that the OP may not be using the function correctly, and indeed can just disable AH and use the switch as they would a normal cable handbrake.
    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
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    First time buyer lauren
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 12:41 PM
    yes wearing seatbelt, I did put that in my post.

    I am definitely not "flooring the accelerator" it's a 2.0L tdi, I suspect if I floored the accelerator that I would have ended up going through my front door by now!?

    One technician did replicate the problem whilst on a test drive with me (him driving it) and told me there was a fault... then when someone else spoke to me no one had any recognition of it.

    The family member that works at another garage which is part of the Volkswagen group said there is a problem with them (he's a head mechanic and has experienced the problem himself on a few other cars (seat and vw's) they are having to fob people off and blame their "driving style" as they simply don't know how to fix it but are obviously keeping it quiet!! There has been a recall (46G7) (google it and you will see im not the only person experiencing a fault) this was written in my service book. Like I said I've been driving the car daily since we bought it, there are days when it is completely fine and days where every time I try to move off it won't budge without a load of faffing that shouldn't have to be done. Yes I could probably drive it without the auto hold on (it does still stick sometimes when I do it manually) but why should I? I paid a lot of money for the car which if the problem persists is going to have a broken clutch and faulty breaks!
    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 12:47 PM
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    First time buyer lauren
    I would also like to point out that the issue only started 2 weeks after I got the car so if I simply didn't know how to drive a car with auto hold wouldn't I have experienced it from driving from the forecourt? And wouldn't it happen every time I tried to drive. The simple fact is it is an intermittent problem, Vw know about it and have tried to fix it with a software update and failed miserably!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 17, 12:48 PM
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    AdrianC
    I would also like to point out that the issue only started 2 weeks after I got the car
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    Which suggests it is not an inherent fault... Yet the mechanism is exactly the same as the normal electronic parking brake. The only thing auto-hold adds is some software to take it off automatically, when certain criteria are met.

    Yes I could probably drive it without the auto hold on (it does still stick sometimes when I do it manually)
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    OK, so there may be an issue with the mechanism of the electronic parking brake, rather than with the auto-hold software.

    but why should I? I paid a lot of money for the car which if the problem persists is going to have a broken clutch and faulty breaks!
    For the sake of turning the button off until you know it's fixed, that would be contributory negligence on your part.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 12:49 PM
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    DUTR
    yes wearing seatbelt, I did put that in my post.

    I am definitely not "flooring the accelerator" it's a 2.0L tdi, I suspect if I floored the accelerator that I would have ended up going through my front door by now!?

    One technician did replicate the problem whilst on a test drive with me (him driving it) and told me there was a fault... then when someone else spoke to me no one had any recognition of it.

    The family member that works at another garage which is part of the Volkswagen group said there is a problem with them (he's a head mechanic and has experienced the problem himself on a few other cars (seat and vw's) they are having to fob people off and blame their "driving style" as they simply don't know how to fix it but are obviously keeping it quiet!! There has been a recall (46G7) (google it and you will see im not the only person experiencing a fault) this was written in my service book. Like I said I've been driving the car daily since we bought it, there are days when it is completely fine and days where every time I try to move off it won't budge without a load of faffing that shouldn't have to be done. Yes I could probably drive it without the auto hold on (it does still stick sometimes when I do it manually) but why should I? I paid a lot of money for the car which if the problem persists is going to have a broken clutch and faulty breaks!
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    Well if the insider has said there is a recall and you have the bulletin, then this should be adopted at the next service, the selling dealership does not have to deal with it any authorised agent can do it. SO I'm not sure where the not fit for purpose etc comes into it, one of the complaints on the other forum was that the brakes were grabby and jerky pull off, it transpired it was the drivers not using the sytem as the designer had intended, also if the door is open the brake won't disengage.
    Perhaps you are misinterpretting what the actual fault is?
    From what you describe, the brakes are not releasing (sticking caliper?) not that the AH is faulty?
    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 1:15 PM
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    First time buyer lauren
    Vw informed me of the recall and performed a software update which should "fix" the issue, it hasn't it's made it worse than it was before I took the car in!

    I'm sorry I'm a woman, the recall was for the electronic parking brake not the auto hold! There's a problem with something so maybe it's the EPB since it still gets stuck with auto hold switched off.

    The not fit for purpose comes in when there's a fault with the car I.e the brakes that cannot be fixed, does it not?

    Thanks for the help anyway I was looking for advice of what route to go down to try and get a safer car, not people to disagree with me when Vw have issued a recall which was supposed to fix a problem (that some people on here think doesn't exist).

    I don't often drive with the doors open!
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 1:24 PM
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    DUTR
    Vw informed me of the recall and performed a software update which should "fix" the issue, it hasn't it's made it worse than it was before I took the car in!

    I'm sorry I'm a woman, the recall was for the electronic parking brake not the auto hold! There's a problem with something so maybe it's the EPB since it still gets stuck with auto hold switched off.

    The not fit for purpose comes in when there's a fault with the car I.e the brakes that cannot be fixed, does it not?

    Thanks for the help anyway I was looking for advice of what route to go down to try and get a safer car, not people to disagree with me when Vw have issued a recall which was supposed to fix a problem (that some people on here think doesn't exist).

    I don't often drive with the doors open!
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    It seems you want people to tell you what you want to hear, You say VW are aware of a fault so then they have a recall proceedure and technicians to investigate and confirm if there is a warranty claim.
    You say you want advice on which route to persue, however so far the readers simply don't agree that the route to take is for a refund, why not sell the car and buy another?
    Two problems sold in one transaction.
    As for driving with the door open?..... if the dorr switch was faulty and the ECU 'thinks the door is open then the brake won't disengage.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 8th Jul 17, 1:29 PM
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    Geoff1963
    If the feature only behaves properly with certain conditions ( seat belt on, doors closed etc. ) maybe the defect is in those signals. Perhaps more likely, if it was initially OK. Some of those features might not have an obvious indication ( warning light / chimes etc. ) or perhaps the brakes ECU is more critical of a borderline signal.

    If someone senior in the dealership can drive it OK, that might not mean the OP is using it wrong ; but perhaps there is a way to coax it into working properly.
    I'd recommend searching VW owner forums.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 1:36 PM
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    DUTR
    If the feature only behaves properly with certain conditions ( seat belt on, doors closed etc. ) maybe the defect is in those signals. Perhaps more likely, if it was initially OK. Some of those features might not have an obvious indication ( warning light / chimes etc. ) or perhaps the brakes ECU is more critical of a borderline signal.

    If someone senior in the dealership can drive it OK, that might not mean the OP is using it wrong ; but perhaps there is a way to coax it into working properly.
    I'd recommend searching VW owner forums.
    Originally posted by Geoff1963
    I have a MK7 Golf with EPB and AH, I am indeed on other forums for VW, and yes some complained that the brakes were grabby, however it transpires that they expected the brakes to disengage instantaneously, if I'm say at traffic lights, as te lights change simply tap the accelerator and then proceed as usual, it's 2nd nature to me now and is still easier quicker than the previous handbrake handle method.
    Any car of any marque can and will develop faults, however it's when the unkowledgeable percieves that they know more than the mfrs chain and the only resolve is for a refund is where things get disappointing.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Jul 17, 1:40 PM
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    AdrianC
    Vw informed me of the recall and performed a software update which should "fix" the issue, it hasn't it's made it worse than it was before I took the car in!
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    A software update is not a recall.
    VW have issued four recalls in the last year, which may affect your Tiguan - but none of them are related to the electronic parking brake.

    Unfortunately, they cannot easily be linked to directly - you will need to search for them yourself at http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp
    They cover child locks (DVSA ref R/2016/145, VW ref 58C9), seats (DVSA ref R/2016/272, VW ref 72F9), lights (DVSA ref R/2017/040, VW ref 97CH), and airbags (DVSA ref R/2017/079, VW ref 69P4).

    The not fit for purpose comes in when there's a fault with the car I.e the brakes that cannot be fixed, does it not?
    Saying "the brakes cannot be fixed" is a tad disingenuous. You are not going to die a fiery death when they simply fail to work. The problem may be a simple mechanical one on your car, or it may be a software issue affecting what is ultimately a frippery - but it is a minor inconvenience, rather than a safety problem.

    To take advantage of your statutory rights, you will need to first ask VW to take the car back for a refund - which you don't appear to have done yet. That refund will need to make allowance for the use you have had from the car. If they refuse, then you return the car to them anyway, and take them to court to request the refund. You will need to show that the problem renders the entire car itself unfit for purpose. Since you can disable the relatively minor feature in question with a simple button-press, that may be difficult, and you will be without the use of the car as the court case progresses. Since you are saying that the car is unusable, this should not be an issue...
    Last edited by AdrianC; 08-07-2017 at 1:45 PM.
    • First time buyer lauren
    • By First time buyer lauren 8th Jul 17, 1:55 PM
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    First time buyer lauren
    Then they shouldn't use the word recall which they have several times! Can you blame me for being confused? They even wrote it in the service book with the recall number ? That is helpful information thank you.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 8th Jul 17, 2:33 PM
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    Geoff1963
    You are not going to die a fiery death when they simply fail to work.
    Hmmmnnnn . . . .
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Jul 17, 5:49 PM
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    DUTR
    Then they shouldn't use the word recall which they have several times! Can you blame me for being confused? They even wrote it in the service book with the recall number ? That is helpful information thank you.
    Originally posted by First time buyer lauren
    OP I done a search on a Tiguan forum and read this

    "Yep gotta agree about the parking brake, can be a ball ache.
    BUT one thing you must remember is to depress the clutch pedal all the way to the floor before selecting the gear and then release the pedal as normal.
    Any half hearted press (which I'm guilty of) and the brake will NOT release.
    Result, as I have posted in other discussions is, a back end dip, once twice and even three time before it clicks in to FLOOR THE B****y CLUTCH PEDAL pull away with red face and guffaws from the driver behind me (watched him in the mirror )"
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