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  • FIRST POST
    • Sausmeister
    • By Sausmeister 8th Jul 17, 6:47 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Sausmeister
    Euro Car Parks have I understood
    • #1
    • 8th Jul 17, 6:47 AM
    Euro Car Parks have I understood 8th Jul 17 at 6:47 AM
    Got a letter from Euro car parks. I had visited a restaurant with a pay and display car park. Paid £2 for a two hour ticket, (can't remember if that was the maximum allowed or simply all the money I had)

    Inside the restaurant I ordered drinks and got my £2 refunded. Went on to have a family meal. Noticed I had over stayed the two hours and left.

    Returned home yesterday to find the Euro car park (BPA member) parking charge for £85. There are two pictures of my number plate and the times they quote are entry at 17:59 exit at 20:27. They claim my pay and display ticket did not cover the day and time and is therefore in breach of their fully signposted terms and conditions.

    I initially called the restaurant who said he couldn't help but I should appeal as they "are usually sympathetic to ppl who over stay their tickets there"

    So having looked at the FAQ and the other sticky threads here I understand I should:

    Send an appeal challenging the ticket while also refusing to identify the driver of the vehicle.

    I'm a bit unsure as to the grounds of the appeal though.


    My natural inclination is to explain my missus is unwell, my kids were playing up and the staff took forever to serve our food because his is the truth. However that would implicate me as the driver and technically I suppose relies then entirely on their benelovence for the charge to be cancelled.

    I would like to make a formal complaint to the hq of the restaurant that as a paying customer I expect their support in fighting a ticket incurred on their premesis, does this seem sensible?

    And finally could anyone confirm which is the most appropriate template or otherwise which angle I am best served with in my appeal to this charge??

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Sausmeister
    • By Sausmeister 8th Jul 17, 7:37 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Sausmeister
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:37 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:37 AM
    To confirm, this is what I believe I'm being advised to use as a template;



    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,


    Just querying this as it specifies inadequate signage and that's probably not entirely accurate in this instance. Doe the appeal need to be grounded on something accurate?? Or will this suffice to get the challenge started.

    Truth is I paid for 2 hours had dinner and it took longer but morally charging me for that is obscene. But that's not a defence right
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jul 17, 8:00 AM
    • 13,638 Posts
    • 21,393 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:00 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:00 AM
    My natural inclination is to explain
    Your natural inclination will never work with a money-hungry parking company. Their only objective is to make as much money from motorists as possible. Explanations won't help you ever in a private parking case.

    I suppose relies then entirely on their benelovence for the charge to be cancelled.
    There is no benevolence, it does not exist in PPC land.

    I would like to make a formal complaint to the hq of the restaurant that as a paying customer I expect their support in fighting a ticket incurred on their premesis, does this seem sensible?
    Absolutely, go for the jugular. If they won't help, then hit them hard via TripAdvisor, their Facebook page or Twitter feed. Let other potential customers know there are other restaurants around who wouldn't betray one of their customers in a time of need.

    And finally could anyone confirm which is the most appropriate template
    The one you've copied above.

    Just querying this as it specifies inadequate signage and that's probably not entirely accurate in this instance.
    Where did you gain your expertise in assessing the adequacy of private parking signage? 'Not entirely accurate' would suggest some 'inaccuracy', therefore you argue that a contract cannot be formed.

    Truth is I paid for 2 hours had dinner and it took longer but morally charging me for that is obscene. But that's not a defence right
    Right.

    I initially called the restaurant who said he couldn't help but I should appeal as they "are usually sympathetic to ppl who over stay their tickets there"
    Come back when you've had your letter of rejection from ECP - which will prove that not only has your restaurant betrayed you, you are so unimportant to them once you've paid your bill, they have simply fobbed you off. 'You're on your own Jack, close the door behind you as you leave!'
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 08-07-2017 at 8:30 AM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Jul 17, 8:42 AM
    • 6,708 Posts
    • 5,705 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:42 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 8:42 AM
    If the service was slow, and the time the PPC thinks is is long enough is in fact not, why not ask the restaurant to pay the charge, (it is not a fine).

    One thing is certain, if it got to court the judge is most unlikely to believe that a mere two hours is sufficient time to partake of one's luncheon.
    Last edited by The Deep; 08-07-2017 at 9:36 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Sausmeister
    • By Sausmeister 8th Jul 17, 9:19 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Sausmeister
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:19 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:19 AM
    Hi,

    Many thanks for the replies. I contacted the restaurant by email and they have now offered to appeal on my behalf.

    Does this seem a safe thing to do?? Hopefully they won't be appealing they will be instructing their client to quash the charge. But if they appeal badly then could that be more harmful than an appeal done directly by myself??
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Jul 17, 9:39 AM
    • 6,708 Posts
    • 5,705 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:39 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:39 AM
    You are overthinking this. So you stayed for a few minutes longer than you should have, so what. Do you think that a bunch of scussy ex-clampers deserve a £100 because of it? You can mug an O.A.P. for less.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jul 17, 9:40 AM
    • 13,638 Posts
    • 21,393 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:40 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:40 AM
    When is the 28 day deadline for your own appeal to ECP?

    If you've still got time, let the restaurant get on with it. If you've heard nothing back (or ECP has rejected the restaurant's approach) get your own appeal in so that ECP receive it by the 28th day. If they will accept appeals electronically you can more or less go right up to the wire.

    But don't overshoot that deadline, otherwise you won't get a POPLA code. You can get this killed off at POPLA if necessary.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jul 17, 9:42 AM
    • 13,638 Posts
    • 21,393 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:42 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:42 AM
    You can mug an O.A.P. for less.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Be careful what you might be wishing for TD!

    ¿Como es la Costa?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Sausmeister
    • By Sausmeister 8th Jul 17, 9:50 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Sausmeister
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:50 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:50 AM
    Ok many thanks.

    No they do not deserve one pence of my money because I didn't force my family to eat their dinner within the two hour time limit and I will go to any lengths to fight this if necessary.

    Ok the plan is allow the restaurant to deal with now they have offered. If no satisfactory conclusion by July 28th (28 days is actually the 31st) I will losge my own online using the above template from here. I greatly appreciate all your input, these organisations are a blight on a civilised society. Thankyou
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