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  • FIRST POST
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 7th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    • 119Posts
    • 61Thanks
    firely2327
    vendors solicitor hopeless - and Green Deal
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    vendors solicitor hopeless - and Green Deal 7th Jul 17 at 6:58 PM
    After seeing a house in March this year, I put in an offer in early May and it was accepted. Yay! Vendor has already essentially moved out in part, to be across country with family, where they hope to buy asap. I've been pestered these last few weeks by the vendors agent with the 'have you got your mortgage approved yet?' question on a regular basis. [aside: my bank is a small branch, one mortgage advisor. He was ill so off for a week or so, then, as I have a permission to let on my current home, had to wait and provide additional documents. There was never any concern, just a bit longer to wait than I would have liked but it's all good now and confirmation received a few weeks ago]


    Anyways, found out yesterday that the questions my solicitor sent to the vendors solicitor (VS) three and a half weeks ago (June 13th) were still unanswered. My solicitor rang theirs but was repeatedly told the person dealing with the case was unavailable. Apparently the VS emailed mine on 29th June saying they were ready to exchange contracts, while mine said "well, that's great, but you still haven't replied to our questions so we're not ready!" The agent was apparently told by the VS that they'd answered the questions, but mine was adamant that they got no reply. I was told the VS would email the answers over yesterday afternoon by 3pm but guess what, they didn't. After some harassing by me they finally did this afternoon. 5/11 questions answered!!!!!


    One of the things that worries me is that the property info form stated that the boiler was installed on a Green Deal scheme. Now, the bank valued the property at the price I've agreed to pay, so I'm not signing up to a scheme and effectively paying more than the agreed price. Nor have the other side asked me to. Obviously even if they don't expect me to, I'll still need some assurance that I wont, upon completion, become liable for such a contract. However, the VS replied to the question of details regarding the scheme with (I paraphrase slightly), "the vendor has no details of what they're paying and no documentary evidence of the contract, amounts, bills etc".


    I smell something awry. Personally I think the VS is about as incompetent as they can get. All along I've been assured the vendors want to deal asap as they are keen to buy in the East and have seen a property they want, and their agent keeps hassling me for a quick resolution.... I'm eager to complete ASAP as I'm doing a 5hr commute round trip to get to work 1-2 days a week, and in a few weeks time will need to be there 5 days a week. Driving me nuts now, and worried. Should I start looking elsewhere for a house or am I being a bit melodramatic? Have emailed vendors agent this evening with a clear message: if your side doesn't start giving sensible information by lunchtime Monday then the deal is off.
    Last edited by firely2327; 07-07-2017 at 7:01 PM.
Page 1
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 7th Jul 17, 7:12 PM
    • 4,828 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:12 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:12 PM
    tHave emailed vendors agent this evening with a clear message: if your side doesn't start giving sensible information by lunchtime Monday then the deal is off.
    Originally posted by firely2327
    But do you really mean that?

    If you don't, you might look a bit foolish on Monday afternoon.

    Perhaps it's better to just start looking at other properties - and if you find one you like, make a judgement on whether to abort this purchase and start on a new purchase.

    In the meantime, I would just remain 'business-like'. Send brief factual emails to the EA explaining what is still outstanding, and ask them to chase their client.


    Edit to add....

    It's worth bearing in mind that it's the vendor who answers most pre-contract enquiries.

    If answers are late or incomplete, it's likely to be the vendor's fault. A solicitor can't force their client to answer questions.
    Last edited by eddddy; 07-07-2017 at 7:16 PM.
    • lisssa
    • By lisssa 7th Jul 17, 7:13 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    lisssa
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:13 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:13 PM
    Hi
    Think the following will help :-

    HOW DOES THE GREEN DEAL WORK?
    Under the Green Deal, the government will offer loans to any UK home or business wanting to make energy efficient improvements to their property. The loan can be taken for up to 25 years and is added to the property's utility bills. The debt stays with the property, so when an occupant moves, the new owner or tenant will take on the repayments. There is a Golden Rule which states that expected savings over 25 years must be equal to, or higher, than the initial cost of installing the energy efficient device.

    Google green deal scheme , tells you all about it .
    If you are not getting any sense from the conveyancer , personally I would be getting the estate agent to contact the vendor direct and asking them to provide copies of their utility bill as it will have to clearly state on their what they are being charged !
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 7th Jul 17, 7:17 PM
    • 4,402 Posts
    • 3,246 Thanks
    glentoran99
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:17 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:17 PM




    One of the things that worries me is that the property info form stated that the boiler was installed on a Green Deal scheme. Now, the bank valued the property at the price I've agreed to pay, so I'm not signing up to a scheme and effectively paying more than the agreed price.
    Originally posted by firely2327
    You've no Choice, so you either accept it or move on http://www.greendeal.co.uk/boiler-replacement-green-deal


    "The debt stays with the property, so when an occupant moves, the new owner or tenant will take on the repayments"
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 7th Jul 17, 7:36 PM
    • 54,390 Posts
    • 47,202 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:36 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 7:36 PM
    A Personally I think the VS is about as incompetent as they can get.
    Originally posted by firely2327
    Responses are the vendors. The solicitors will have no knowledge of the property. VS will simply act on the instructions of their client, nothing more nothing less.
    “ “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria. The time of maximum pessimism is the best time to buy, and the time of maximum optimism is the best time to sell.” Sir John Marks Templeton
    • Mobeer
    • By Mobeer 7th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    • 1,679 Posts
    • 4,371 Thanks
    Mobeer
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 8:36 PM
    You've no Choice, so you either accept it or move on http://www.greendeal.co.uk/boiler-replacement-green-deal

    "The debt stays with the property, so when an occupant moves, the new owner or tenant will take on the repayments"
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    The option would be to demand the sale price be lowered by the total amount owed on the green deal contract.

    Though it seems irrelevant now given the sale is likely off come Monday lunchtime.
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 8th Jul 17, 7:31 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:31 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:31 PM
    Hi
    Think the following will help :-

    HOW DOES THE GREEN DEAL WORK?
    Under the Green Deal, the government will offer loans to any UK home or business wanting to make energy efficient improvements to their property. The loan can be taken for up to 25 years and is added to the property's utility bills. The debt stays with the property, so when an occupant moves, the new owner or tenant will take on the repayments. There is a Golden Rule which states that expected savings over 25 years must be equal to, or higher, than the initial cost of installing the energy efficient device. !
    Originally posted by lisssa

    I have seen this before, however it's not so clear cut. The house I'm in at the moment, I volunteered to take over the Green Deal scheme in order to lower the purchase price as there were a few jobs that needed doing in the property that were going to cost a bit. Up until that point the vendors had been planning on paying off the boiler, installed less than a year previously on the Green Deal scheme, on the completion day, leaving me free of the scheme. The costs were not added to utility bill each month, and the vendor had the option, as do I now, to pay off the remaining balance at any time during the contractual period of 10 years. The money is paid each month to the company that installed the boiler, not the gas or electricity company, hence no connection with utilities whatsoever. Information online regarding the Green Deal scheme doesn't appear to mention this scenario at all, which makes me wonder. It not exactly black and white and it is obviously possible to clear the debt before passing on the property to new owners.
    Last edited by firely2327; 08-07-2017 at 7:40 PM.
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 8th Jul 17, 7:33 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:33 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:33 PM
    But do you really mean that?

    If you don't, you might look a bit foolish on Monday afternoon.

    Perhaps it's better to just start looking at other properties - and if you find one you like, make a judgement on whether to abort this purchase and start on a new purchase.

    In the meantime, I would just remain 'business-like'. Send brief factual emails to the EA explaining what is still outstanding, and ask them to chase their client.


    Edit to add....

    It's worth bearing in mind that it's the vendor who answers most pre-contract enquiries.

    If answers are late or incomplete, it's likely to be the vendor's fault. A solicitor can't force their client to answer questions.
    Originally posted by eddddy

    Vendors solicitors have been caught out telling lies; they can't prove they emailed the answers weeks ago like they claimed, then they contradicted themselves saying they hadn't replied. Vendor is very keen to proceed asap according to EA so I do blame the VS.


    And yep, I mean it re looking elsewhere. Have already been online to look at alternative properties to view next week
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 8th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jul 17, 7:35 PM


    "The debt stays with the property, so when an occupant moves, the new owner or tenant will take on the repayments"
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Unless the vendor clears the debt before completion, as the previous owners of my current property were prepared to do. Nothing stopping them legally from doing this.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 8th Jul 17, 7:48 PM
    • 4,828 Posts
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    eddddy
    Yes - like I say, starting to look at other properties is a very sensible approach to take:

    And yep, I mean it re looking elsewhere. Have already been online to look at alternative properties to view next week
    Originally posted by firely2327
    As opposed to making ultimatums like this:

    Have emailed vendors agent this evening with a clear message: if your side doesn't start giving sensible information by lunchtime Monday then the deal is off.
    Originally posted by firely2327
    Otherwise, if you don't find anything better, you might regret calling off this deal.
    Last edited by eddddy; 08-07-2017 at 7:50 PM.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 8th Jul 17, 9:21 PM
    • 54,390 Posts
    • 47,202 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Vendors solicitors have been caught out telling lies; they can't prove they emailed the answers weeks ago like they claimed, then they contradicted themselves saying they hadn't replied. Vendor is very keen to proceed asap according to EA so I do blame the VS.

    Originally posted by firely2327
    So easy to blame the solicitors when they cannot defend themselves. The vendors solicitors however are not going to say that the vendor refuses to supply us with the required information. They know full well that the transaction isn't going to proceed without the matter being resolved. Therefore simply stall for time.
    “ “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria. The time of maximum pessimism is the best time to buy, and the time of maximum optimism is the best time to sell.” Sir John Marks Templeton
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 8th Jul 17, 11:33 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    Yes - like I say, starting to look at other properties is a very sensible approach to take:



    As opposed to making ultimatums like this:



    Otherwise, if you don't find anything better, you might regret calling off this deal.
    Originally posted by eddddy

    I completely get where you're coming from. Making such an ultimatum may seem like I'm jumping the gun a bit, however having waited nearly four weeks for replies to simple questions, with VS and EA backtracking on their answers when they were shown to have given false information and in some cases have refuted knowledge of basic information (or even attempting to obtain it), is a bit much. I absolutely need to be in Manchester full time in a few weeks and if the vendors are going to keep stringing me along by not providing the answers I'm legally entitled to asap, then I need time to make alternative arrangements, even if that means renting while I look for another property. Aside from 25 hours a week commuting, it would entail spending close to 200£ a week in train fares too. Time is running out and I cannot afford to hang around any longer, I've been patient until this week. Spoke to EA today and even they've not been able to get Green Deal info out of vendors. Something stinks.......
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 8th Jul 17, 11:39 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    So easy to blame the solicitors when they cannot defend themselves. The vendors solicitors however are not going to say that the vendor refuses to supply us with the required information. They know full well that the transaction isn't going to proceed without the matter being resolved. Therefore simply stall for time.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir


    Ah well now, it is easy to blame the solicitors because they told lies! Questions sent on 13th, on 29th they emailed mine to say they were ready to complete. When they were asked about the outstanding questions they said they'd already provided answers to all the questions in June, which my solicitor refutes. Even boss of EA had to contact them yesterday to ask them to send the replies asap. If they had sent the answers to all the questions in the first place in June, as they asserted, then surely they would have a record of it? They couldn't prove it, nor could they provide answers to all the questions this week. If they had the answers in June then why not now?
    Answer; they were telling porkie pies! They dropped the ball and are trying to cover their backsides.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 9th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    • 35,515 Posts
    • 149,803 Thanks
    silvercar
    I completely get where you're coming from. Making such an ultimatum may seem like I'm jumping the gun a bit, however having waited nearly four weeks for replies to simple questions, with VS and EA backtracking on their answers when they were shown to have given false information and in some cases have refuted knowledge of basic information (or even attempting to obtain it), is a bit much. I absolutely need to be in Manchester full time in a few weeks and if the vendors are going to keep stringing me along by not providing the answers I'm legally entitled to asap, then I need time to make alternative arrangements, even if that means renting while I look for another property. Aside from 25 hours a week commuting, it would entail spending close to 200£ a week in train fares too. Time is running out and I cannot afford to hang around any longer, I've been patient until this week. Spoke to EA today and even they've not been able to get Green Deal info out of vendors. Something stinks.......
    Originally posted by firely2327
    You aren't legally entitled to answers, you are entitled to ask. If the vendors don't give answers then you have to decide whether to proceed or walk away. It may be that the vendors know that you are in a time critical situation and hope that you will take on their green deal just because the cost of not going ahead will be punitive. The vendors are thinking that your costs of walking away now (commuting costs and hassle, needing a new survey on another property, wasted legal fees....) will outweigh the costs of their green deal. Or it could be that the vendors don't have the information, maybe they know their utility bills are higher than normal to pay for the green deal, but haven't delved into the detail.
    • firely2327
    • By firely2327 10th Jul 17, 6:30 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    firely2327
    All sorted, almost! It turns out that the vendors solicitor was wrong. There's no outstanding debt on the Green Deal at all and the monthly direct debit they alluded to was for something entirely different. There are no debts associated with the house I'm purchasing, yay. Happy days. They replied before 11am today too following pressure from the vendor to clarify their previous replies, so my email to the agent on Friday obviously had an impact. Thanks for your suggestions everyone, appreciate them.
    Time to start packing properly....
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