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  • FIRST POST
    • izoomzoom
    • By izoomzoom 7th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
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    izoomzoom
    Leasehold / shared ownership / conversion question
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    Leasehold / shared ownership / conversion question 7th Jul 17 at 5:10 PM
    Can someone please give me some general advice:

    I am a shared ownership property owner. I own 50% at the moment.

    I want to convert my garage.

    I asked the HA (who owns other 50%) for permission and they basically said no because ....

    The Lease says 3 ( 5 ) not to make any alterations or additions to the exterior of the promises or any alterations or additions to the interior of the premises nor to erect any new buildings thereon nor in anyway interfere with the outside of the premises.



    So, if I was to purchase (staircase) the other 50% of my shared ownership property (and thus be the 100% owner and no more shared ownership), would I then be able to do the garage conversion?

    Or is this lease they refer to about the property being leasehold, and even as a 100% owner, I would still not be able to do the conversion unless we then went and purchased the freehold?

    Sorry, I'm not very knowledgable and I just want to convert my garage.
    LBM Nov 08 CC debt 6450.

    As at Jul 2010: £ 4280 (PO 2087, Barc 890, HSBC 1303)
    As at Jul 2011: £ 3180 (PO 300. Barc 2780)
    As at Dec 2012 £ 4460 (PO 2600, Barc 1760, HSBC 100)
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
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    G_M
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
    Whether shared ownership or not, you will need the freeholder's permission.

    Or you could try buying the freehold?
    • izoomzoom
    • By izoomzoom 7th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
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    izoomzoom
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    Okay, who or what is the freeholder?
    LBM Nov 08 CC debt 6450.

    As at Jul 2010: £ 4280 (PO 2087, Barc 890, HSBC 1303)
    As at Jul 2011: £ 3180 (PO 300. Barc 2780)
    As at Dec 2012 £ 4460 (PO 2600, Barc 1760, HSBC 100)
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    • 41,478 Posts
    • 47,866 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:31 PM
    Do you live in a flat or house?

    The freeholder is the person or company who owns the land on which your property is built, and who granted the lease which you bought half of.

    You can buy the Freehold Title document from the Land Registry here for £3. This will show who currently owns it.

    Though normally you'd have to pay an annual 'ground rent' and maybe a 'service charge' to either this freeholder, or a management company he employs to look after things for him.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 7th Jul 17, 5:59 PM
    • 5,287 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:59 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:59 PM
    If your property is shared ownership, I'm guessing the other 50% of the property is owned by a Housing Association. And that Housing Association is probably your freeholder.

    The answers to your questions about alterations will be in your lease.

    The clause you quote essentially says "no alterations under any circumstances" - so that's your answer.

    Unless... there's another clause in your lease that says "alterations are allowed if you own 100%".


    You can ask the Housing Association if you want, but if what they say contradicts the lease, you have to stick with what the lease says.
    • izoomzoom
    • By izoomzoom 10th Jul 17, 8:25 AM
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    izoomzoom
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:25 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 17, 8:25 AM
    I've read the Lease more fully now.

    3(5) states "Not to make any alterations or additions to the exterior of the the Premises or any alterations or additions to the interior of the Premises nor to erect any new buildings thereon nor in any way interfere with the outside of the Premises nor to remove any of the Landlord's fixtures from the Premises without the previous written consent of the Landlord such consent not to be unreasonably withheld"

    Funny how they failed to tell me about the latter part of the 3(5) clause.

    I've written back, asking again if consent is being withheld.

    If they refuse, any suggestions on what I should then do, as I do not think our request is unreasonable. We are model tenants and next door house has the exact same conversion.
    LBM Nov 08 CC debt 6450.

    As at Jul 2010: £ 4280 (PO 2087, Barc 890, HSBC 1303)
    As at Jul 2011: £ 3180 (PO 300. Barc 2780)
    As at Dec 2012 £ 4460 (PO 2600, Barc 1760, HSBC 100)
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Jul 17, 9:15 AM
    • 5,287 Posts
    • 4,925 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:15 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:15 AM
    It doesn't sound like they've withheld consent, because it doesn't sound like you've applied for consent yet.

    As a starting point, ask them what information they need in an application for consent.

    Eventually, they may need detailed plans, confirmation of planning consent, confirmation of building regs compliance etc. There may also be legal issues that need resolving with the lease.

    Your freeholder may guide you through the process, or they might just tell you to get your application in to their legal department, and wait for their written comments.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • 5,287 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    ...as I do not think our request is unreasonable.
    Originally posted by izoomzoom
    ... TBH, the 'reasonableness' will be judged on legal and technical matters, rather than personal opinions.

    It will be the opinion of professional lawyers (who review the lease), surveyors, architects etc, that carry most weight.

    So, for example, if the freeholder's lawyer or surveyor gives reasons why the conversion is not reasonable, you or your lawyer or surveyor would have to counter those arguments.

    If both sides can't agree, you could take those legal and technical arguments to a Tribunal (like a court) and let them decide.
    • izoomzoom
    • By izoomzoom 10th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
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    izoomzoom
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 17, 12:32 PM
    It doesn't sound like they've withheld consent, because it doesn't sound like you've applied for consent yet.

    As a starting point, ask them what information they need in an application for consent.

    Eventually, they may need detailed plans, confirmation of planning consent, confirmation of building regs compliance etc. There may also be legal issues that need resolving with the lease.

    Your freeholder may guide you through the process, or they might just tell you to get your application in to their legal department, and wait for their written comments.
    Originally posted by eddddy
    I've already given them plans and all the other bits they requested, when I made my initial enquiries. I requested, in writing, formal permission to do a conversion 6 weeks ago.
    LBM Nov 08 CC debt 6450.

    As at Jul 2010: £ 4280 (PO 2087, Barc 890, HSBC 1303)
    As at Jul 2011: £ 3180 (PO 300. Barc 2780)
    As at Dec 2012 £ 4460 (PO 2600, Barc 1760, HSBC 100)
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Jul 17, 1:11 PM
    • 5,287 Posts
    • 4,925 Thanks
    eddddy
    I've already given them plans and all the other bits they requested, when I made my initial enquiries. I requested, in writing, formal permission to do a conversion 6 weeks ago.
    Originally posted by izoomzoom
    OK. So you have formally requested consent for alterations, and they have formally refused consent.

    So you need to look at the reasons for the refusal, and challenge them if you think the reasons are unreasonable.

    What reasons have they given?

    For example, is it because of breaching covenants in the lease, breaching building regs, breaching planning conditions?
    • izoomzoom
    • By izoomzoom 11th Jul 17, 1:56 PM
    • 1,418 Posts
    • 1,980 Thanks
    izoomzoom
    Just an update, HA are now asking for plans, description of work etc (which was supplied to them on 30 May, so 6 weeks ago).

    They've also said they are not refusing permission just asking for stuff they've already received
    LBM Nov 08 CC debt 6450.

    As at Jul 2010: £ 4280 (PO 2087, Barc 890, HSBC 1303)
    As at Jul 2011: £ 3180 (PO 300. Barc 2780)
    As at Dec 2012 £ 4460 (PO 2600, Barc 1760, HSBC 100)
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