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    • tdmusic
    • By tdmusic 7th Jul 17, 4:21 PM
    • 4Posts
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    tdmusic
    Online returns
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:21 PM
    Online returns 7th Jul 17 at 4:21 PM
    Hi,

    I hope this is the right place to post this! I'm actually messaging this as a seller rather than a consumer but I want to make sure I get my facts right.

    We have a customer who has a product that requires online activation which will then activate the warranty. Now the customer has decided that he no longer wants the product after 4 days of owning it (and activating the online warranty).

    Now I understand that he has the right to return that item due to the online selling regulations, however, because he's activated the warranty and has physically used the product (very easy to get proof and we can see how many minutes or hours it was used for)

    Where do I stand? I can't sell the item as new due to the warranty and the manufacture can't reset it, am I by law okay to charge the customer a fee for using the item? (this way i can sell it as second hand stock but not make a loss) If so, is anyone able to link me to an official document that states this?

    Let me know your thoughts!
    Last edited by tdmusic; 07-07-2017 at 4:23 PM.
Page 1
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    • 3,156 Posts
    • 4,609 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    Hi,

    I hope this is the right place to post this! I'm actually messaging this as a seller rather than a consumer but I want to make sure I get my facts right.

    We have a customer who has a product that requires online activation which will then activate the warranty. Now the customer has decided that he no longer wants the product after 4 days of owning it (and activating the online warranty).

    Now I understand that he has the right to return that item due to the online selling regulations, however, because he's activated the warranty and has physically used the product (very easy to get proof and we can see how many minutes or hours it was used for)

    Where do I stand? I can't sell the item as new due to the warranty and the manufacture can't reset it, am I by law okay to charge the customer a fee for using the item? (this way i can sell it as second hand stock but not make a loss) If so, is anyone able to link me to an official document that states this?

    Let me know your thoughts!
    Originally posted by tdmusic
    A deduction can be made if the value of the goods has been reduced as a result of you handling the goods more than was necessary.
    The extent to which you can handle the goods is the same as it would be if you were assessing them in a shop.

    I would say the value has dramatically dropped if the warranty has been activated - so reduce away!
    • tdmusic
    • By tdmusic 7th Jul 17, 4:34 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    tdmusic
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:34 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:34 PM
    Sounds good! It's an issue we face with this new line of products and something i'll be honest we didn't even consider!

    Is their any official wording from the government or any link to an official source to back my claim up when this happens again? Also thank you very much for your reply!

    EDIT: I have just seen your last bit of quote, can i ask where you got that bit of text from?
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 4:47 PM
    • 3,156 Posts
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:47 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:47 PM
    Sounds good! It's an issue we face with this new line of products and something i'll be honest we didn't even consider!

    Is their any official wording from the government or any link to an official source to back my claim up when this happens again? Also thank you very much for your reply!

    EDIT: I have just seen your last bit of quote, can i ask where you got that bit of text from?
    Originally posted by tdmusic
    https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/The%20sale%20and%20supply%20of%20goods_ALL_BIS_GOO DS_GUIDANCE_SEP15.pdf

    Have a look at page 25.

    The bit of text I quoted was from the Which website.

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

    Can I ask what the item is and how much it sells for?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • 3,034 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    What governs online sales are:

    Consumer Rights Act 2015 (applies for all consumer transactions)
    Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

    Check out Part 3 of the latter. Section 37 might be relevant here. No it doesn't, per post #6. The online activation comment suggested it was a software package, but obviously not.
    Last edited by DoaM; 07-07-2017 at 4:58 PM.
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    • tdmusic
    • By tdmusic 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    tdmusic
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:55 PM
    It's a drone and sells for £1,099.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • 9,333 Posts
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    shaun from Africa
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    It's a drone and sells for £1,099.
    Originally posted by tdmusic
    Do you have any idea how much a 2nd hand unit would sell for?
    If so and you can also find out if the warranty is transferrable and if there is a charge for this then I would think that using those figures as a guide you should be able to calculate an approximate value for the now used drone and then offer this to your customer.
    • tdmusic
    • By tdmusic 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    tdmusic
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    The warranty is based using the serial number of the drone I believe so if a person was to buy it, they would be covered but its from the point that the original buyer activated it. I guess what I can do is look at the second hand value and see what the difference is between the original new value.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:05 PM
    Think along the lines of - "If the customer takes me to small claims court challenging the reduction, can I prove on the balance of probabilities that the reduction was justified".

    I would image a second hand (possibly without packaging) drone with no warranty would be vastly reduced in price.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 5:07 PM
    • 3,156 Posts
    • 4,609 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    The warranty is based using the serial number of the drone I believe so if a person was to buy it, they would be covered but its from the point that the original buyer activated it. I guess what I can do is look at the second hand value and see what the difference is between the original new value.
    Originally posted by tdmusic
    But does the activavtion link that drone to the buyers name and address - also with dated proof of purchase.

    All well and good it being linked to the drone, however if the manufacturer won't talk to the new customer because its not in their name/address then it will be useless.

    How long is the warranty for?
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Jul 17, 5:32 PM
    • 9,333 Posts
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    shaun from Africa
    One other thing that would be worth checking.
    Are you 100% sure that your customer made the purchase as a consumer?
    If the drone was bought for business purposes (such as by a surveyor, professional photographer etc) then there is no right of cancellation simply for a change of mind.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Jul 17, 6:04 PM
    • 11,132 Posts
    • 8,387 Thanks
    unholyangel
    OP bear in mind in order to make a deduction under the quoted legislation, you would have had to have complied with that legislation.

    (9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

    (10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—

    (a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);
    (b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.

    (11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.


    (12) For the purposes of paragraph (9) handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop.
    Paragraph (l) of schedule 2 tells us:
    (l)where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38;
    You can read through regulations 27 to 38 yourself here:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/part/3/made

    In other words, you need to have informed them that under the CCRs, they have the right to cancel within 14 days but that if they diminish the value with unreasonable handling, you'll deduct it from their refund.
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