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• FIRST POST
• Savvy_Sue
• 7th Jul 17, 3:17 PM
• 38,210Posts
• 34,751Thanks
Savvy_Sue
I am just trying to calculate leave entitlement in hours for someone who will only be with us for a few weeks (and we don't yet know how many). I'd like to tell them how many hours they accrue each week. they'll be working 37.5 hours pw

We give 33 days' leave each year, including bank holidays.

I can use the government calculator, but I'm having problems scaling up ... which is probably me being dense, so I'd just like one which does it for me!
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
Page 1
• By paddyrg 7th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
• 13,110 Posts
• 11,179 Thanks
33 days/year pro rates to 12.7%, so 100 hours worked means entitlement to 12.7 hours.

Doing the sums in hours makes things a lot easier
• General Grant
• 7th Jul 17, 8:46 PM
• 692 Posts
• 810 Thanks
General Grant
I would have thought that if you can work it out with the online calculator then do that then divide by 28 (the statutory number of days) and multiply by 33.
• z1a
• By z1a 7th Jul 17, 8:48 PM
• 1,118 Posts
• 1,052 Thanks
z1a
Just thinking that if you can't work it out, should you be in a position of any responsibility?
• PeppaCoin
• 7th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
• 118 Posts
• 133 Thanks
PeppaCoin
Wow thats rude! She's human!
• clairecymru
• 7th Jul 17, 10:18 PM
• 482 Posts
• 2,649 Thanks
clairecymru
It is the number of days worked / 365 x 247.5 hours (33 days).
Hoping and Praying for that ITV win!
• Savvy_Sue
• 7th Jul 17, 10:57 PM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
Thank you all, particularly for the % calculation which will be jolly useful in future, and for the correction on the number of statutory days which my brain had at 25 instead of 28. I actually know perfectly well that the stat min is 28, usually.

On a good day I can do this stuff standing on my head, but at present I claim heat exhaustion.

Also on a good day my manager would check my workings but when they're on leave that gets tricky.

And I KNOW we are not the only company paying more than stat min, which is why it is irritating not to be able to find a calculator which does it for you!
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
• 8th Jul 17, 12:52 AM
• 7,120 Posts
• 7,780 Thanks
A standard 28 days holiday is 12.07% your 33 days works out at 14.54% accruement rate.
• getmore4less
• 8th Jul 17, 7:37 AM
• 31,647 Posts
• 18,956 Thanks
getmore4less
I am just trying to calculate leave entitlement in hours for someone who will only be with us for a few weeks (and we don't yet know how many). I'd like to tell them how many hours they accrue each week. they'll be working 37.5 hours pw

We give 33 days' leave each year, including bank holidays.

I can use the government calculator, but I'm having problems scaling up ... which is probably me being dense, so I'd just like one which does it for me!
Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
(caveat max working week for holidays is 5)

There are a number of ways to do it but you are probably familiar with the 12.07% for statutory(5.6 weeks/28 days)

lets work with that and see how you work out any other combination.

the calculation is based on the split between work and holidays, many use a 52 weeks year but you can go more accurate if you want.

You work 46.4 weeks to get 5.6 weeks holiday.(that adds up to 52)

the actual calculation is 5.6/(52-5.6) = 0.1206896 or round up to 12.07%

33 days holiday is 6.6weeks 6.6/(52-6.6) = 0.1453744 or round up to 14.54%

For a 37.5hr week that's 5.4525hrs.

BUT NOTE.

These are extra holiday hours and to be taken separate/additional to working time so if they take a day off you only use 4 days for that weeks holiday accrual.

.......................
If you want to have them take all their holidays within the period of work then you can just use the hours per week calculation .

1/52 * 33 * 7.5 = 4.7956hrs

Which is the way the WTR does them, still legal, but if they get paid the holiday at the end they get less total(depends how mean you are).
Last edited by getmore4less; 08-07-2017 at 7:40 AM.
• Savvy_Sue
• 9th Jul 17, 12:10 AM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
33 days/year pro rates to 12.7%, so 100 hours worked means entitlement to 12.7 hours.

Doing the sums in hours makes things a lot easier
A standard 28 days holiday is 12.07% your 33 days works out at 14.54% accruement rate.
Given the two answers above, you can understand why I'm confused! I think the discrepancy is explained below:

(caveat max working week for holidays is 5)

There are a number of ways to do it but you are probably familiar with the 12.07% for statutory(5.6 weeks/28 days)

lets work with that and see how you work out any other combination.

the calculation is based on the split between work and holidays, many use a 52 weeks year but you can go more accurate if you want.

You work 46.4 weeks to get 5.6 weeks holiday.(that adds up to 52)

the actual calculation is 5.6/(52-5.6) = 0.1206896 or round up to 12.07%

33 days holiday is 6.6weeks 6.6/(52-6.6) = 0.1453744 or round up to 14.54%

For a 37.5hr week that's 5.4525hrs.

BUT NOTE.

These are extra holiday hours and to be taken separate/additional to working time so if they take a day off you only use 4 days for that weeks holiday accrual.

.......................
If you want to have them take all their holidays within the period of work then you can just use the hours per week calculation .

1/52 * 33 * 7.5 = 4.7956hrs

Which is the way the WTR does them, still legal, but if they get paid the holiday at the end they get less total(depends how mean you are).
Originally posted by getmore4less
Now this starts to explain why my trial runs were getting me an answer between 'round up to 5' and 'round up to 5.5'.

Since I KNOW that the person plans to take some time off within their contract, the simplest thing seems to be to run with the lower figure.
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
• getmore4less
• 9th Jul 17, 6:47 AM
• 31,647 Posts
• 18,956 Thanks
getmore4less
woops I made an error copying in one number.

1/52 * 33 * 7.5 = 4.7956hrs
1/52 * 33 * 7.5 = 4.7596hrs

Given the two answers above, you can understand why I'm confused! I think the discrepancy is explained below:

Now this starts to explain why my trial runs were getting me an answer between 'round up to 5' and 'round up to 5.5'.

Since I KNOW that the person plans to take some time off within their contract, the simplest thing seems to be to run with the lower figure.
Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
The 12.7% is the 1/52 * 6.6

eg. if they work 10 weeks they accrue 10/52*6.6*37.5=47.6hr
using 12.7% rounds that up to 47.625 (negligible)
using 5hrs per week rounds upto 50hr. (5% more)

The other thing to make clear is how plan/approve holidays and how you will be treating any over/under payment of holiday

using the proportion of year worked give the employer a slight advantage if they take less and get it paid, if they take more than accrued it benefits the employee when you deduct it from final pay.

eg using the 4.76hr accrued per week(holidays all taken)
if they did not take the holiday they would have been due 5.5425 and if they took double they would have been due 4.0676

Not big £ in the overall scheme of things.
Last edited by getmore4less; 09-07-2017 at 6:50 AM.
• Savvy_Sue
• 10th Jul 17, 1:25 AM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
Thanks. Yes, it's the point at which you do the rounding where it starts to make a real difference to the actual answer.

It is complicated by not yet knowing how many weeks this person will be working for, but I can at least explain how many hours leave they are accruing, and we'll run their leave bookings in hours.
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
• getmore4less
• 10th Jul 17, 8:15 AM
• 31,647 Posts
• 18,956 Thanks
getmore4less
Thanks. Yes, it's the point at which you do the rounding where it starts to make a real difference to the actual answer.

It is complicated by not yet knowing how many weeks this person will be working for, but I can at least explain how many hours leave they are accruing, and we'll run their leave bookings in hours.
Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
One other thing to be aware of, statutory accrual(during first year of employment only) is monthly, 1/12 of the allowance at the beginning of the calendar month and rounded up to the 0.5/1.0 day.

in practice this should not be an issue as you can control the holidays with suitable workplace agreements that override the statutory notice periods for taking holidays
• Savvy_Sue
• 10th Jul 17, 12:30 PM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
I think my head is going to explode again ...
One other thing to be aware of, statutory accrual(during first year of employment only) is monthly, 1/12 of the allowance at the beginning of the calendar month and rounded up to the 0.5/1.0 day.
Originally posted by getmore4less
You're not saying that even if they don't work a full month, they accrue a month's worth of leave? Are you?

In practice this should not be an issue as you can control the holidays with suitable workplace agreements that override the statutory notice periods for taking holidays
Originally posted by getmore4less
Again, not entirely sure what you're saying here. For some of the leave I know they want to take, it's going to be confirmed before they start, but that won't mop up 5 hours per week.
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
• Savvy_Sue
• 10th Jul 17, 12:37 PM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
And I've done some 'back of the envelope' comparisons between 4.8 hours and 5 hours.

Every five weeks, accruing 5 hours per week, they're an hour better off than if they only accrue 4.8 hours per week. That is not something worth spending a lot of time worrying about ... as long as I can Explain My Workings!
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...
• getmore4less
• 10th Jul 17, 12:48 PM
• 31,647 Posts
• 18,956 Thanks
getmore4less
I think my head is going to explode again ...
You're not saying that even if they don't work a full month, they accrue a month's worth of leave? Are you?

There is a second adjustment when they leave which calculates the total for the period of employment

after the first year you become entitled to all your holiday for the rest of that holiday year and there after all at the start of the holiday year

Again, not entirely sure what you're saying here. For some of the leave I know they want to take, it's going to be confirmed before they start, but that won't mop up 5 hours per week.
Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
if the employer uses statutory leave accrual during the first year the employee can request up to the amount accrued. eg on the first of the month they accrue 1/12 and can ask for that amount even though they won't have worked the hours so if they leave before the end of the month they will owe a bit back.

Some employers adapt that to you only accrue(and can take) the worked days worth of holidays.

Don't forget if you know you will have periods where you don't need them you can allocate them time off to use up the hours.
• Savvy_Sue
• 10th Jul 17, 11:39 PM
• 38,210 Posts
• 34,751 Thanks
Savvy_Sue
thanks, that makes sense, in several senses.
Still knitting!
Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats and 2 balaclavas for seamen ...
Current projects: another balaclava for myself, must find a mohair cardigan pattern ...