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    • Danny_7591
    • By Danny_7591 7th Jul 17, 2:15 PM
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    Danny_7591
    unused stairlift refund
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:15 PM
    unused stairlift refund 7th Jul 17 at 2:15 PM
    Hi my farther inlaw bought a stairlift for his terminally ill wife on the 1 July 17 from orange badge mobility services it cost £1700. Unfortunately she passed away in hospital and never made it home to use it. He has rang them up asking if they would remove it and give him a full refund, they said yes they can remove it but will only give him £150. the house is a standard 13 stairs house with no turns so no special equipment was needed he paid on credit card is he entitled to a full refund?
Page 1
    • cono1717
    • By cono1717 7th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
    • 600 Posts
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    cono1717
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:17 PM
    This is obviously a very delicate subject.

    How was the item ordered was it online or in a store?
    Have you had a look at the terms and conditions?
    • Danny_7591
    • By Danny_7591 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
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    Danny_7591
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    I believe it was viewed online but ordered over the phone, I have been trying to find terms and conditions on there website but struggling, I had nothing to do with the order I'm just trying to help the man out.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 7th Jul 17, 3:29 PM
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    neilmcl
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:29 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:29 PM
    Whether it was ordered online or via the phone it is still a distance sale. Under the CCRs your dad should be entitled to a refund, however if it's been installed then in theory the retailer can deduct an amount to take into account the loss of value but offering only £150 is taking the mick. How did he pay?

    Sorry for your loss btw.
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 7th Jul 17, 3:38 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
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    ThumbRemote
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:38 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:38 PM
    Presumably the £1700 cost included the fitting fee. This complicates matters, as it's not just the purchase of an item.

    If he's wanting them to come out and uninstall it, the cost of their labour needs to be paid again. They don't even have to agree to come out and do that if they don't want to.

    If you think the amount offered is too small, you'd have to find someone else to remove it or do it yourself and sell on ebay.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 7th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
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    wealdroam
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
    It is also possible that the thing be deemed 'made to the customer's specification', if the length from top to bottom of the stairs is considered as such.

    It is very much like windows - all replacement windows are made to fit an existing opening - i.e. to customer's specification.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 3:48 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:48 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:48 PM
    To receive a full refund the product(s) must be returned complete, unused, in an undamaged state and in the original packaging.

    We will not refund you any supplementary costs arising if you chose a type of delivery other than the least expensive type of standard delivery offered by us.

    If the product(s) are not returned in their original condition, Orange Badge Mobility Services Limited reserves the right to charge for repair or replacement of any product(s).

    We're happy for you to unpack the item and inspect it properly. However, if you’ve used or installed it we will only make a partial refund to cover the loss in value of the product. This could be up to 50% of the price of the item.

    If on return of the goods, whether by post, self-delivery or courier, we find that necessary packaging is missing then we reserve the right to charge an £50 fee to repackage the product(s).

    Engineered Collection Policy - Where goods need to be dismantled to enable return we can arrange to send a mobility technician to collect the product from you at a convenient time. If this service is needed, please notify us by phone or in writing within 14 days of the product being delivered. By ordering this service you agree to pay a cost of £50 (confirmed beforehand) as an engineer service fee.
    http://www.orangebadge.co.uk/complaints
    When was the item delivered?
    Did they install the stairlift?
    When did you make contact to get a refund?
    Last edited by powerful_Rogue; 07-07-2017 at 3:51 PM.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 3:49 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:49 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 3:49 PM
    It is also possible that the thing be deemed 'made to the customer's specification', if the length from top to bottom of the stairs is considered as such.

    It is very much like windows - all replacement windows are made to fit an existing opening - i.e. to customer's specification.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    If it was a custom made order, then these T&C's will kick in.

    Unfortunately we cannot accept returns on product(s) that are made to order.
    A refund can only be given if the product(s) arrives faulty, damaged or incorrect.
    • timbstoke
    • By timbstoke 7th Jul 17, 4:05 PM
    • 925 Posts
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    timbstoke
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:05 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:05 PM
    The Returns section on their website seems rather at odds with their offer, and even contradicts itself.

    You have the right to return your order within 14 calendar days of receiving the goods. After this period we cannot accept any returns.

    We will refund all items returned to us.

    If you would like an alternative design, size or colour, return your item for refund and place a new order on our website for the item you would like.

    To cancel your order you must contact us via telephone to notify us of your decision to return.

    Our full details if you need to contact us for another reason.

    Telephone: 03442 16 16 16

    email: info@orangebadge.co.uk

    Postal Address: The Old Dairy, Rise Farm, Cockshut Road, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 3P

    To receive a full refund the product(s) must be returned complete, unused, in an undamaged state and in the original packaging.

    We will not refund you any supplementary costs arising if you chose a type of delivery other than the least expensive type of standard delivery offered by us.

    If the product(s) are not returned in their original condition, Orange Badge Mobility Services Limited reserves the right to charge for repair or replacement of any product(s).

    We're happy for you to unpack the item and inspect it properly. However, if you’ve used or installed it we will only make a partial refund to cover the loss in value of the product. This could be up to 50% of the price of the item.

    If on return of the goods, whether by post, self-delivery or courier, we find that necessary packaging is missing then we reserve the right to charge an £50 fee to repackage the product(s).

    Unfortunately we cannot accept returns on product(s) that are made to order.

    A refund can only be given if the product(s) arrives faulty, damaged or incorrect.

    Please obtain proof of posting from the Royal Mail when returning items as we are not liable for loss or damage in transit.

    We are unable to retrieve packages returned to us being held by the Royal Mail with insufficient postage applied.

    Engineered Collection Policy - Where goods need to be dismantled to enable return we can arrange to send a mobility technician to collect the product from you at a convenient time. If this service is needed, please notify us by phone or in writing within 14 days of the product being delivered. By ordering this service you agree to pay a cost of £50 (confirmed beforehand) as an engineer service fee.
    So, they can charge £50 for an engineer to uninstall it. They can charge £50 to replace any packaging, if indeed it came with any. The can charge "up to 50% of the price" to cover loss of value IF "you have used or installed it". You haven't used it, and THEY installed it as part of the order, so I don't believe that should be counted under that clause. Their claim that a refund can only be given for faulty or damaged goods is completely wrong and in breach of your statutory rights for distance contracts.

    Even at the absolute maximum their own terms allow, they can only deduct £950 (£850 as 50% value + £50 engineer fee + £50 packaging costs). I don't believe for a second that a 50% deduction is remotely reasonable for something that's been installed for less than a week.

    I'd be inclined to give them a call, pointing out their own refund policy, and follow that up with two questions: Are they confident that they can defend any deductions in court, and would they be happy for you to approach the local newspapers and online review sites with details of the deductions they're making against a bereaved widower?

    If necessary, you may need to get it returned first, and then sue them for the remainder of your refund.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jul 17, 4:10 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    The can charge "up to 50% of the price" to cover loss of value IF "you have used or installed it". You haven't used it, and THEY installed it as part of the order, so I don't believe that should be counted under that clause.
    Originally posted by timbstoke
    I would expect that to mean if the item has been installed, regardless of who installed it.

    Their claim that a refund can only be given for faulty or damaged goods is completely wrong and in breach of your statutory rights for distance contracts.
    Originally posted by timbstoke
    The way I read it, that only applies to custom orders.

    Unfortunately we cannot accept returns on product(s) that are made to order.

    A refund can only be given if the product(s) arrives faulty, damaged or incorrect.
    Even at the absolute maximum their own terms allow, they can only deduct £950 (£850 as 50% value + £50 engineer fee + £50 packaging costs). I don't believe for a second that a 50% deduction is remotely reasonable for something that's been installed for less than a week.
    Originally posted by timbstoke
    It's now second hand though. I do believe the OP should be looking at a refund of around £750 going by the terms and conditions.
    • davidwood123
    • By davidwood123 7th Jul 17, 5:13 PM
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    davidwood123
    It is second hand.

    Those who think it isn't would be the first to complain if they found out an item they'd recently bought had been installed in another house
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Jul 17, 6:25 PM
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    unholyangel
    If it was a custom made order, then these T&C's will kick in.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Made to order isn't necessarily made to the consumers specifications though and its only the latter that is exempt from the right to cancel.

    It also depends on what information the OP's dad was provided with when entering the contract. If they didn't provide the required information in a durable medium, they may not be able to make a charge for diminished value.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 7th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
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    angryparcel
    You haven't used it,
    Originally posted by timbstoke
    how do we know that and how does the company know if you have used it or not after it was installed
    • Danny_7591
    • By Danny_7591 7th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
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    Danny_7591
    I have a death certificate to prove it wasn't used as she never came out of hospital
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 7th Jul 17, 7:23 PM
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    wealdroam
    I have a death certificate to prove it wasn't used as she never came out of hospital
    Originally posted by Danny_7591
    But doesn't that only prove that one particular person didn't use it?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 7th Jul 17, 8:01 PM
    • 9,480 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    I cannot imagine the installers not checking the stairlift was working by trying it out a couple of times, so it would have been used.
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 7th Jul 17, 8:22 PM
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    angryparcel
    I have a death certificate to prove it wasn't used as she never came out of hospital
    Originally posted by Danny_7591
    does not proof that you have now used it or anyone else has used it, also a death cert does not prove it was not used, it is only proof of a person death
    • Danny_7591
    • By Danny_7591 7th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
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    Danny_7591
    OK fair one I get the point, how do I help him out and prove that it wasn't used, due to the rapid decline of his wife after it was installed he spent all of his time at the hospital. All I want to do is Try and get him a bit more money back to go towards the funeral than the obsured £150 they are currently offering.
    • Danny_7591
    • By Danny_7591 7th Jul 17, 9:17 PM
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    Danny_7591
    The item was delivered and installed on Friday the 1st July 17. the company installed it and it was paid for on credit card
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 8th Jul 17, 1:13 PM
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    powerful_Rogue
    OK fair one I get the point, how do I help him out and prove that it wasn't used, due to the rapid decline of his wife after it was installed he spent all of his time at the hospital. All I want to do is Try and get him a bit more money back to go towards the funeral than the obsured £150 they are currently offering.
    Originally posted by Danny_7591
    Contact the company and ask how they got to the £150 figure.

    Advise them what is in their terms and conditions, what we have posted above and advise going by that you should be looking at a refund of around £750.

    Come back and let us know what they say.
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