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    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 10:53 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 4Thanks
    gertie79
    Conveyancer missed water issue
    • #1
    • 7th Jul 17, 10:53 AM
    Conveyancer missed water issue 7th Jul 17 at 10:53 AM
    Hi, we recently purchased a house and have just been told by a neighbour that his property and a neighbouring business use our water. We pay the bill and he then reimburses us for 25% and the nursery owner pays us 50%. I have contacted the water company who know that there are several properties attached to our meter and said that it should have come up in the searches our conveyancer did. I have checked and can see no mention of it. We aren't happy with this arrangement. The business is a huge plant nursery so I imagine they would use a lot of water and there is no formal agreement in place. We just have to trust that our neighbours will pay us back. Do we have any recourse to the solicitors for failing to discover this, or to the vendor for failing to disclose it? Thanks!
Page 2
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jul 17, 4:02 PM
    • 41,935 Posts
    • 48,534 Thanks
    G_M
    Turn the water off I guarantee they'll sort it the same day
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Come on Guest! OP has just moved in and has to live there for (some) years. No point spoiling for a fight from the off!

    Tea and cake first. THEN turn off the water if the reaction warrants it.
    • david1951
    • By david1951 7th Jul 17, 4:03 PM
    • 365 Posts
    • 413 Thanks
    david1951
    You didn't ask for copies of any recent gas, water and electricity bills before exchange? I thought that was standard these days?
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I wouldn't be sending ID documents to a stranger...
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 7th Jul 17, 4:03 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    Come on Guest! OP has just moved. No point spoiling for a fight from the off!

    Tea and cake first. THEN turn off the water if the reaction warrants it.
    Originally posted by G_M


    I guess, just considering how much the bills must be every day the commercial business delays sorting it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jul 17, 4:15 PM
    • 41,935 Posts
    • 48,534 Thanks
    G_M
    I guess, just considering how much the bills must be every day the commercial business delays sorting it.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    OP said:
    We pay the bill and he then reimburses us for 25% and the nursery owner pays us 50%.
    There's no suggestion the current system is not working, just that
    a) it may not be the fairest system
    b) it's not legally documented

    Hence yes, I'd seek to alter/formalise the arragement, but I'd not go off half-c*cked upsetting the neighbours from the start.
    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 4:22 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    gertie79
    Thanks for all the replies. I have found the deeds and it does say 'Excepting and Reserving unto the xx Company Limited and their assigns the free passage and running of water from any adjoining or contiguous property belonging to them.'. So I guess this means the situation is OK? But, I googled the company mentioned and it was actually dissolved earlier this year. Does that make any difference?

    For reference, the original owners of our house owned all the land the other properties sit on and over time sold bits off and the house and business were subsequently built.

    I don't want to cut their water supply off because, as pointed out, they are our neighbours and we'd like to get along with them. I'd just rather we were all paying for what we use, for all the reasons others have pointed out on here. Perhaps getting meters installed is the best way to go about sorting this out. Hopefully it's not too expensive!
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 7th Jul 17, 4:23 PM
    • 1,132 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    m0bov
    Was this not flagged up in the legal report? What does your Sol say? They should of made you aware of this.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 7th Jul 17, 4:25 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    OP said:
    There's no suggestion the current system is not working, just that
    a) it may not be the fairest system
    b) it's not legally documented

    Hence yes, I'd seek to alter/formalise the arragement, but I'd not go off half-c*cked upsetting the neighbours from the start.
    Originally posted by G_M


    Sorry I just meant the system, fair or not, is also flawed.


    The commercial business could be racking up thousands in debt, which the OP is liable for. Pays upfront (let's be fair after moving not many people have that kind of money lying around) and relying on a (presumably limited) company to pay on time.


    However im certainly not half-cocked, quarter-cocked maybe, probably eighth-cocked really!
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 7th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • 1,515 Posts
    • 4,498 Thanks
    Penitent
    Just as an aside (since several people have advised doing it), if you do plan to turn the water off, make sure you can legally do so first. Water companies aren't allowed to cut a person's water off if they don't pay. They can't even turn the pressure down like they do in other countries with the same restriction. It's a public health restriction.
    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 4:29 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    gertie79
    I do believe the business is unprofitable and has been for some time. They have a planning application in to demolish it and build several houses on the site. I guess if that goes ahead this might all get sorted out then anyway, but I do worry we would then be supplying these other houses as well!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jul 17, 4:31 PM
    • 41,935 Posts
    • 48,534 Thanks
    G_M
    ......, if you do plan to turn the water off, make sure you can legally do so first......
    Originally posted by Penitent
    OP can't. He has now drip-fed the information that:

    (The Deeds) say 'Excepting and Reserving unto the xx Company Limited and their assigns the free passage and running of water from any adjoining or contiguous property belonging to them.'.
    Presumably the current business is 'their asigns', so they are intitled to water.

    It's slightly strange wording: suggests water can pass over OP''s land, but not that OP has to supply the water (from his own mains supply). It also suggests this water must come "from any adjoining or contiguous property belonging to them.' where 'them' is xx company. Kind of suggests xx company own land either side of OP and can transport water acress.

    Do the Deeds not also specify where this water comes from and who pays?

    I suspect there is much more documented. Is this in your Title document? Does it refer to another document ("dated xx/xx/xxxx") which will provide full details.........???????
    Last edited by G_M; 07-07-2017 at 4:36 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 7th Jul 17, 4:33 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    I do believe the business is unprofitable and has been for some time. They have a planning application in to demolish it and build several houses on the site. I guess if that goes ahead this might all get sorted out then anyway, but I do worry we would then be supplying these other houses as well!
    Originally posted by gertie79
    You may well be. I'm surprised to be honest
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Jul 17, 4:35 PM
    • 15,459 Posts
    • 13,783 Thanks
    AdrianC
    If XX Company Ltd is now dissolved (in plenty of the OP's water, I presume), I would guess that the successor business still running the nursery counts under "and their assigns", so are still entitled to use the supply.

    That will predate water meters - there's no mention of payment. We could also be picky and say that it only mentions water FROM them, but...
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 7th Jul 17, 4:45 PM
    • 13,952 Posts
    • 37,913 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    On the TA6 there are enough questions in Section 8 to reveal this, so what were the vendors responses to these?
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Absolutely.

    I don't recall the exact wording of the legal questionnaire vendors have to fill in at that point - but believe there is a general catch-all question to effect of "Is there anything else we should know?" or words to that effect.

    This certainly counts as something the vendors should have told you about imo and I'd be looking to see what I could do to get them to cover the cost you have to pay for separating out the water meters - as they should surely have disclosed this.

    I suggest you get out your copy of that questionnaire and check out the exact wording of the questions around that sort of issue - and what their responses were - bearing in mind the word "misrepresentation" and that there are legal penalties for this.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • jessex1990
    • By jessex1990 7th Jul 17, 4:47 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jessex1990
    Surely it's easier if every property has their own meter rather than sharing. My current flat has a shared water with the other flats in the block, the management company charges everyone an equal portion of it even if they have no tenant in it - makes it cheaper for everybody
    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 4:52 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    gertie79
    Do the Deeds not also specify where this water comes from and who pays?

    I suspect there is much more documented. Is this in your Title document? Does it refer to another document ("dated xx/xx/xxxx") which will provide full details.........???????
    Yes that paragraph is from the title document and that is literally all it says on the matter. No other documents are referenced.

    As its our supply I guess no one could object to us installing meters? If its not that expensive I might be inclined to just go ahead and pay for it. But if it's costly, would the fact that the wording is vague and doesn't mention a specific payment schedule cause any problems in getting them to pay a share, or could that work in our favour? Obviously we would try and work it out in a friendly fashion first.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 7th Jul 17, 4:53 PM
    • 13,952 Posts
    • 37,913 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    I do believe the business is unprofitable and has been for some time. They have a planning application in to demolish it and build several houses on the site. I guess if that goes ahead this might all get sorted out then anyway, but I do worry we would then be supplying these other houses as well!
    Originally posted by gertie79
    Put like that - I would be worried about the possibility of the business going bust and leaving you as one of their creditors.

    I'd be round there tomorrow doing that "tea and cake bit" - AFTER I'd already phoned the Water Company and arranged for those meters to go in next week. The conversation would go along the lines of "##smile## just so you know - but separate meters are being put in this Thursday. So just keeping you in the picture as to what is happening. We'll need to have a reading taken of how things stand at present and work out the final amount due from you - and I'm sure you'll want to know that asap".

    EDIT; I presume the different water companies across the country follow much the same practices as each other. So - link below to my own current one for instance to give you an idea:

    www.dwrcymru.com/en/Business/Our-Charges.aspx
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 07-07-2017 at 5:02 PM.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 5:01 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    gertie79
    On the TA6 there are enough questions in Section 8 to reveal this, so what were the vendors responses to these?
    Just checked and she has ticked no to there being:
    'any other rights or arrangements'
    'any drains, pipes or wires leading to any neighbour's property across the property'
    'any agreement about drains, pipes or wires'
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 7th Jul 17, 5:02 PM
    • 15,459 Posts
    • 13,783 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Just checked and she has ticked no to there being:
    'any other rights or arrangements'
    'any drains, pipes or wires leading to any neighbour's property across the property'
    'any agreement about drains, pipes or wires'
    Originally posted by gertie79
    So she did not tell the truth on the PIF...

    Now, does that get you any nearer resolving the problem?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 7th Jul 17, 5:04 PM
    • 13,952 Posts
    • 37,913 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    1. See edit on my post above.

    2. The answers she has given to that question are wrong then. "Misrepresentation".

    Which leaves:

    3. Making those arrangements for separate water meters and writing her a letter telling her words to the effect of you'll forget about the "misrepresentation" subject to her paying any costs you incur from it.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • gertie79
    • By gertie79 7th Jul 17, 5:10 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    gertie79
    What are the legal ramifications of misrepresentation? I've never bought a house before, this is all new to me...
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