Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 6th Jul 17, 4:18 PM
    • 196Posts
    • 290Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    Term of a statutory tenancy
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:18 PM
    Term of a statutory tenancy 6th Jul 17 at 4:18 PM
    As anyone who's been following my posts will know, I'm buying a house with the completion date falling uncomfortably close to the end of my tenancy (and the LL has refused a short extension, and served S21 notice for the end of the original AST).

    The end of the fixed term is on 21 July. The current completion date being bandied around is 28 July (I am attempting to negotiate this earlier. If I have not exchanged by the 17th, I will be pulling out and finding a longer term tenancy, then househunting again).

    Now, to my actual question:

    The rental was paid on my old tenancy per calendar month (i.e. covering 1st of each month to the last day of each month). If I stay on in the property, and an SPT is created, would it run from the date of the end of the tenancy (i.e. with the first period being 22 July - 22 August) or follow the rent periods of the old agreement (i.e. with the first period being 22 July - 31 July, and the next being 1 August to 31 August). That is, if I did take the route of telling my LL "I'll stick around for a week. You could serve a court order, but I'll be gone on the 28th so it seems like a waste of time and money for you to do so!" would I be liable for a full month's rent, or just until 1 August (paying the rest of the rent due for the July rental period)?

    This probably isn't an option I'll take (because taking a week of holiday and being technically homeless wouldn't actually be too inconvenient, and it's a shared house so it's not just me liable for the rent!), but it's worth having in my back pocket, and potentially worth threatening the LL with when asking if I can store some things in the garage temporarily (nothing of great value - just some basic furniture which will be much easier to move at the same time as bringing stuff from my parents' place to the new house! The rest I can take in my car and drop at a self-storage place easily)
Page 1
    • KILL BILL
    • By KILL BILL 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • 2,088 Posts
    • 1,284 Thanks
    KILL BILL
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    he serves you with a section 21 but he cant issue court proceedings until 2 months have elapsed from when it was served - so you will be gone by that time
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    Ah, wait, just found it in the guide! Leaving this up for posterity

    "If rent is paid monthly/weekly, then the Tenancy Periods run monthly/weekly starting the day after the FT ended."
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 6th Jul 17, 4:31 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:31 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:31 PM
    he serves you with a section 21 but he cant issue court proceedings until 2 months have elapsed from when it was served - so you will be gone by that time
    Originally posted by KILL BILL
    The S21 was served several months ago - my point is mostly that it will take him more than a week to get me out of there, and that's as long as I need! (but given there's a risk of his new tenancy falling through, so he doesn't want to agree a mutual surrender, which results in me being stuck paying rent for a month, it's not a useful option!)
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 6th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:32 PM
    Ah, wait, just found it in the guide! Leaving this up for posterity

    "If rent is paid monthly/weekly, then the Tenancy Periods run monthly/weekly starting the day after the FT ended."
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle


    I don't understand how your tenancy started on the 22nd, but you were paying from the 1st, can you elaborate?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 6th Jul 17, 4:42 PM
    • 3,489 Posts
    • 3,550 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:42 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:42 PM
    Have you been paying calendar monthly in advance or arrears?

    i.e. if you left on the 21st (per the S.21) would you still owe a week and a bit rent or would the LL owe you a refund?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 6th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    The end of the fixed term is on 21 July.

    The rental was paid on my old tenancy per calendar month (i.e. covering 1st of each month to the last day of each month). If I stay on in the property, and an SPT is created, would it run from the date of the end of the tenancy (i.e. with the first period being 22 July - 22 August) or follow the rent periods of the old agreement (i.e. with the first period being 22 July - 31 July, and the next being 1 August to 31 August).
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle
    I take it your fixed term was 22 July 20xx - 21 July 2017 right?

    The tenancy periods remain 22nd - 21st, but
    The rent payment periods were changed to 1st - 31s (or whatever). Essentially your rent payment dates were changed you paid for a part month in advance. However this is irrelevant to tenancy periods.

    So, the statutory periodic tenancy would still run 22nd - 21st and you would have to give a period's notice in line with this. Rent can then be worked out so you pay a final part month.
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 6th Jul 17, 4:54 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:54 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:54 PM
    I take it your fixed term was 22 July 20xx - 21 July 2017 right?

    The tenancy periods remain 22nd - 21st, but
    The rent payment periods were changed to 1st - 31s (or whatever). Essentially your rent payment dates were changed you paid for a part month in advance. However this is irrelevant to tenancy periods.

    So, the statutory periodic tenancy would still run 22nd - 21st and you would have to give a period's notice in line with this. Rent can then be worked out so you pay a final part month.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    Slightly complicated by a change in tenant in the middle of the first month (so this contract was 30 July - 21 July), but this is essentially correct. OK, I get the distinction now (and have confirmed that the part month was taken out correctly - rent is by direct debit)
    • G_M
    • By G_M 6th Jul 17, 7:34 PM
    • 41,883 Posts
    • 48,466 Thanks
    G_M
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 7:34 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 7:34 PM
    Glad you've got it straight in your head now. As you now know, rent payment dates are irrelevant for determining when the SPT starts or when each period starts.

    Other than if rent is paid weekly the persiods are weekly.

    "a change in tenant in the middle of the first month" rings a few alarm bells, but as you've not queried this I'll let it pass. Unless you come back........
    • mrginge
    • By mrginge 6th Jul 17, 7:50 PM
    • 4,261 Posts
    • 7,588 Thanks
    mrginge
    The S21 was served several months ago - my point is mostly that it will take him more than a week to get me out of there, and that's as long as I need! (but given there's a risk of his new tenancy falling through, so he doesn't want to agree a mutual surrender, which results in me being stuck paying rent for a month, it's not a useful option!)
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle
    When did the tenancy begin and how long ago was the s21 served?
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 7th Jul 17, 1:52 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    Glad you've got it straight in your head now. As you now know, rent payment dates are irrelevant for determining when the SPT starts or when each period starts.

    Other than if rent is paid weekly the persiods are weekly.

    "a change in tenant in the middle of the first month" rings a few alarm bells, but as you've not queried this I'll let it pass. Unless you come back........
    Originally posted by G_M
    Just to satisfy your curiosity, here's the reason for the change in tenant:

    I originally rented the house in July 2015, for a 12 month period, with my then girlfriend. In April 2016, we asked to renew the tenancy (LL required 3 months notice to renew).

    In May 2016, we split up. Amicably - but not amicably enough to live together for another 14 months! Looking into our cancellation options, we had 3 choices:
    - Cancel the tenancy, paying 1 month rent in fees and any rent until it was re-let
    - get a new housemate immediately to replace my ex (who was moving to a different city, as this coincided with a new work opportunity). Because the LA are vultures, this would have involved a fee to vary the current tenancy agreement, and another fee to vary the renewed contract.
    - Get a new housemate once the renewed contract had started, which is what happened - hence the change of tenant about a week into the contract - meaning that the current contract is 30 July-21 July. I'm kind of wishing that the LA had insisted on a full 12 month term when we changed tenants, since then I'd not have the gap :P .
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 7th Jul 17, 1:57 PM
    • 15,128 Posts
    • 14,763 Thanks
    Guest101
    Just to satisfy your curiosity, here's the reason for the change in tenant:

    I originally rented the house in July 2015, for a 12 month period, with my then girlfriend. In April 2016, we asked to renew the tenancy (LL required 3 months notice to renew). - and you thought this was A: normal or B: actually beneficial?

    In May 2016, we split up. Amicably - but not amicably enough to live together for another 14 months! Looking into our cancellation options, we had 3 choices:
    - Cancel the tenancy, paying 1 month rent in fees and any rent until it was re-let - Or leaving at the end of your initial fixed term
    - get a new housemate immediately to replace my ex (who was moving to a different city, as this coincided with a new work opportunity). Because the LA are vultures, this would have involved a fee to vary the current tenancy agreement, and another fee to vary the renewed contract. - That's actually the least of your problems.
    - Get a new housemate once the renewed contract had started, which is what happened - hence the change of tenant about a week into the contract - meaning that the current contract is 30 July-21 July. I'm kind of wishing that the LA had insisted on a full 12 month term when we changed tenants, since then I'd not have the gap :P .
    Originally posted by DumbMuscle


    You don't have a gap. The tenancy was simply assigned.
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 7th Jul 17, 2:24 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    DumbMuscle
    You don't have a gap. The tenancy was simply assigned.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    I did not think the renewal requirement was normal or beneficial. I thought that it was the best we were going to get in a city with a horrendously busy rental market, and was well aware that the LA has a reputation for sticking to their word and getting new tenants sorted and serving S21 if you try to delay renewing the contract (which yes, we could have stayed for a bit until evicted, but that's not exactly a *good* option when at the time the breakup seemed unlikely!). These are, oddly enough, the least dickbag letting agency in this city. That is mostly a sign of how bad the others are.

    Leaving at the end of the initial fixed term was not an option - we had already signed the contract for the new term (yes, in hindsight that was a bad idea - I really don't need reminding of that).

    The gap I'm referring to is the current gap between the end of my fixed term and the completion date on my house purchase (probably going to be 1 week, from 21 July to 28 July). I am aware that I have the option of staying on and forcing an eviction. I am also aware that that will cost me (and my housemate, who is actually leaving a week before the end of the fixed term) 1 month rent unless the LL agrees to surrender the tenancy on or soon after my completion date. I consider it unlikely that he would do that, as the new tenants would be wanting to move in soon after the end of the fixed term, and so the LL would likely need to find new tenants and would keep us on the hook for the rest of the month until he does so.

    Also, rents here are expensive enough that it's cheaper for me to go on holiday somewhere for the week between the end of the fixed term and the completion date.

    So my options now are:
    a) Overstay the tenancy, paying the whole rent myself (because I'm not mercenary enough to make my housemate keep paying her share!), giving 1 month notice on the statutory tenancy created as soon as possible (and by the latest on the 21st July). At that point, either the LL agrees to surrender it a week later when I actually move out (and refunds me for the days after I move), or they don't and I end up paying a full month.
    b) Take a week off work, go visit my parents/friends, do some DIY on the furniture I'm getting from them for the new house, take a day to go around IKEA and other furniture/electronics shops, and get deliveries sorted for the week after completion. Put my (limited, the current house is furnished) stuff in a self storage place (at about 1/10 the cost of keeping the rent).

    a) would basically only be a good option if I could guarantee that I would only need to pay rent for that first week of the SPT. Otherwise, I might as well take a week off and spend the money on a bigger TV :P
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

190Posts Today

1,511Users online

Martin's Twitter