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    • fineandandy
    • By fineandandy 6th Jul 17, 2:52 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 17Thanks
    fineandandy
    counter claims advice and is it worth it?
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 17, 2:52 PM
    counter claims advice and is it worth it? 6th Jul 17 at 2:52 PM
    hi we are in the process of submitting a defence against a court claim application from civil enforcement limited and wondered about the counter claim section.
    a/ has anyone any experience of this process and
    b/ is it worth doing and how much is a reasonable amount to claim for based on receiving letters and general hassle type harassment.
    c/ is it better to just put a defence in and hope that is the end of the matter?

    thanks for any advice given
Page 1
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 6th Jul 17, 3:05 PM
    • 1,978 Posts
    • 5,604 Thanks
    bargepole
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 17, 3:05 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jul 17, 3:05 PM
    hi we are in the process of submitting a defence against a court claim application from civil enforcement limited and wondered about the counter claim section.
    a/ has anyone any experience of this process and
    b/ is it worth doing and how much is a reasonable amount to claim for based on receiving letters and general hassle type harassment.
    c/ is it better to just put a defence in and hope that is the end of the matter?

    thanks for any advice given
    Originally posted by fineandandy
    Answers as follows:

    a/ Some people have done this (see Prankster blog). Outcomes have been mixed.

    b/ You are unlikely to succeed with a claim for harassment. Better to counterclaim on the basis that CEL breached the Data Protection Act, but ONLY if you can establish with 100% certainty that no offence occurred, and they had no right to obtain and process your data.

    c/ There's more to it than that. Please see the links in the NEWBIES section.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 25. Lost 7.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 6th Jul 17, 3:42 PM
    • 5,280 Posts
    • 4,757 Thanks
    Herzlos
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 17, 3:42 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jul 17, 3:42 PM
    A counter-claim also makes it impossible for them to just drop the claim at the last minute, so you're forcing them to turn up and waste even more money.

    You'd be claiming for your wasted costs and a DPA breach if you win (because they misused your data).
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Jul 17, 4:01 PM
    • 1,362 Posts
    • 2,547 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:01 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:01 PM
    Counterclaims are useful but perhaps the better way is to wait until you are at the Witness Statement stage and bang in a Letter before Claim then.

    The only time anyone ever sees all the cards on the table is at the WS. So a no-cost LBC at the WS stage means that if you win, you can immediately follow up with the claim using the initial case as the basis of your counterclaim against them.

    If you lose the first case you won't have wasted £50 in fees plus £xx costs they may want to add on.

    If they drop the case in period between the WS and the hearing you have enough information to decide if you want to take it further.

    The PPC's whole business is built on people folding at the LBC/Claim stage so why not use it against them too.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    • 13,593 Posts
    • 21,320 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:13 PM
    ^^ I like that advice, IaE ^^
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Jul 17, 4:22 PM
    • 6,685 Posts
    • 5,673 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:22 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 4:22 PM
    When you ask "is it worth it" what do you mean?

    Financially, probably not, you are unlikely to recoup enough to pay for a weekend in Klosters, but in the amount of annoyance causes them, infinitey so.

    How satisfied Ms Jopson must have been to win this.


    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-07-2017 at 4:24 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 6th Jul 17, 6:56 PM
    • 142 Posts
    • 273 Thanks
    Timothea
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 6:56 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 6:56 PM
    Harassment is notoriously difficult to prove. The level of distress and anxiety caused by a parking charge and a few threatening letters is very unlikely to meet the threshold for harassment. A data protection breach, if one has occurred, is often easier to prove.

    So, if you are sure you have a solid defence and if you are confident that you can prove a breach of the Data Protection Act has occurred then you might be able to extract some money from the PPC.

    IamEnamresu's approach is very sensible, whereas counterclaiming is more aggressive and riskier. Sometimes, the PPC won't bother to defend a counterclaim but, on the other hand, some judges may dismiss counterclaims because they think they are frivolous.

    In order to establish whether a data protection breach has occurred, you need to find out how the PPC obtained your personal data and for what purpose. You can ask DVLA whether they provided your personal data to anyone. Just send an email to subjectaccess.requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk explaining that you believe your personal data may have been misused and requesting when, to whom and for what purpose your personal data were provided. Obviously, include the VRN and the date range when you think this might have occurred.

    Post #1 of the following thread shows a list of possible data protection breaches. Post #18 shows an example of an LBA / LBC / LBCCC.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388
    Last edited by Timothea; 07-07-2017 at 8:32 AM.
    • Ryandavis1959
    • By Ryandavis1959 6th Jul 17, 10:31 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Ryandavis1959
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:31 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:31 PM
    Someone put on Facebook that Barry Beavis was representing a motorist in a counter claim against Smart Parking either Tuesday or Wednesday this week. I have been waiting for a further update to see how much his client will win as if it's a large amount it will no doubt open the floodgates here in Scotland!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Jul 17, 10:43 PM
    • 13,593 Posts
    • 21,320 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:43 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:43 PM
    Someone put on Facebook that Barry Beavis was representing a motorist in a counter claim against Smart Parking either Tuesday or Wednesday this week. I have been waiting for a further update to see how much his client will win as if it's a large amount it will no doubt open the floodgates here in Scotland!
    Originally posted by Ryandavis1959
    Interesting, keep us informed.

    We wee Sassenachs, nae ken hee haw.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 6th Jul 17, 11:30 PM
    • 3,654 Posts
    • 5,178 Thanks
    Half_way
    Counterclaims worth it?
    it all depends on why the ticket was issued in the first place, and the OP, fineanddandy hasn't offered that infomration
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
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