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    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 5th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 16Thanks
    Jm90
    Vat help
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:09 PM
    Vat help 5th Jul 17 at 9:09 PM
    Hi all,

    Wondering if someone could help me
    My husband set up his own business and started trading on the 8th may 2017.

    We've recently decided to go VAT registered. The accountant has back dated the start of the VAT from the 8th of may.

    We've only just had the VAT number through.

    Our accountant is now saying we have to go back to all the people who have paid their invoices and ask them to pay the extra 20% for vat, as we were led to believe we couldn't charge it at the time due to not being VAT registered and not having a number.

    Please help? Is this right?
Page 1
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 5th Jul 17, 9:11 PM
    • 35,404 Posts
    • 45,565 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:11 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:11 PM
    Change your accountant, first and foremost.
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 5th Jul 17, 9:22 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:22 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:22 PM
    Could you tell me why please.

    Im not going to pretend that we know what we are doing which is why we have an accountant but alot of what he says seems odd and I'm worried
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 5th Jul 17, 9:27 PM
    • 35,404 Posts
    • 45,565 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:27 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:27 PM
    Give hmrc a ring.
    They will explain it far better than me x
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 5th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    I will be calling them tomorrow.

    I just dont know if this is right. How could we charge vat to people before being VAT registered. It just doesn't make sense. ��
    • Aquamania
    • By Aquamania 6th Jul 17, 8:58 AM
    • 1,933 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    Aquamania
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 8:58 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Jul 17, 8:58 AM
    I will be calling them tomorrow.

    I just dont know if this is right. How could we charge vat to people before being VAT registered. It just doesn't make sense. ��
    Originally posted by Jm90
    You cannot charge vat without a vaild VAT number.
    You will not obtain a VAT number before or until you register

    I suspect that is why McKneff gave you the advice in post#2

    I suspect the accountant may be referring to you reclaiming input tax for a period before you were registrered, but the fact s/he did not explain that to you fully so that you understood is why I concur with the earlier advice you were provided.

    Edit: You are required to account for output tax from the point you register, even if you don't have a vat number on that day (but I thought you get a certificate and registration form immediately now you register online - in the past, before online registration, the certificate came in the post, but even then it did not take 2 months)
    However, this Gov.uk website provides more info should you be in a position of having registered and not having the VAT number
    https://www.gov.uk/vat-registration/overview
    Last edited by Aquamania; 06-07-2017 at 9:04 AM.
    • Vectis
    • By Vectis 6th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    • 430 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    Vectis
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 17, 9:12 AM
    How much money are you talking about? What's the value of the invoices your accountant says you need to go back and charge an extra 20% on?
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 6th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    Thank you all for your help.

    So we have spoken to HMRC today and they said we would have to pay the VAT on all invoices as of the 8th of may, because it was back dated to that date.
    He understood where we come from as we couldn't charge VAT as at that time we was not registered but it is what is it. As he said.

    I think we would either have to go back and ask people to pay the VAT that we now owe, which most seem ok with and don't have a problem. One is not Vat registered so won't.
    The other was awful to get payment from anyway let alone asking for more money.

    He also said that we could send a letter in asking to start the VAT from say the end of this month which personally i think would be a better option it's upto HMRC whether they agree or not.

    I'm annoyed at the accountant. He doesn't seem very good at all and his advice seems off. I wanted to do the accounts myself but felt I was in over my head. I know I don't understand it all.

    We wanted payrole to begin the beginning of this month and he hasn't even sent us our payslips or done anything. So we haven't been paid from our business.

    I've just downloaded DIY accounting software and filled everything in on excell.

    Another company has agreed to show us the ropes on how to do it all, but again I just don't know if this is a good idea. People seem to get fined over the silliest of mistakes and I worry may make them.

    A local accounting firm want nearly 3k a year to do out accounts.

    Sorry I'm going off topic it's all whirling around my head.

    Thank you for all of your time
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 6th Jul 17, 10:00 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:00 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 17, 10:00 PM
    It's a couple of grand that we would have to ask. Which isn't alot I guess but I just think it looks unprofessional myself.

    My husband only asked them as the accountant said it's what he had to do.

    Luckily the ones who agreed understand we are small and only just starting. Another has just registered himself so he was fine about it.
    We are just lucky it wasn't private customers I guess. Atleast those companies could claim it back themselves any way.

    I think pushing the VAT registration to the end of the month if they allow would be the better option all round and we need to get rid of this accountant
    • AbbieCadabra
    • By AbbieCadabra 7th Jul 17, 11:26 AM
    • 1,566 Posts
    • 939 Thanks
    AbbieCadabra
    can't offer anything on VAT but we're very happy with our online accountancy service. we used a local 'old school' accountant for years as we didn't know any better, old fashioned, slow with advice & never really explained things, charged us over £2k per year for the privilege too!

    I keep all our accounts simply on excel docs & send them online at our year end. accountant doesn't usually have any queries or need to send any actual documents to her either. basic queries are answered straight away by email, you can have more involved advice/guidance but think this would cost extra. we pay £650 per year inc. vat. we use http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/index.php
    • WhyNot?
    • By WhyNot? 9th Jul 17, 10:55 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    WhyNot?
    Thank you all for your help.

    So we have spoken to HMRC today and they said we would have to pay the VAT on all invoices as of the 8th of may, because it was back dated to that date.
    He understood where we come from as we couldn't charge VAT as at that time we was not registered but it is what is it. As he said.

    I think we would either have to go back and ask people to pay the VAT that we now owe, which most seem ok with and don't have a problem. One is not Vat registered so won't.
    The other was awful to get payment from anyway let alone asking for more money.

    He also said that we could send a letter in asking to start the VAT from say the end of this month which personally i think would be a better option it's upto HMRC whether they agree or not.

    ...
    Originally posted by Jm90
    We recently registered our business for VAT effective beginning of May this year so have been watching this thread with interest.

    As has already been indicated, you cannot legitimately charge VAT unless you are registered, and I understood that once registered, VAT must be accounted for on all taxable supplies.

    With our first VAT return due end of this month, it's a bit of a daunting task. What do you think our chances are if we ring up HMRC and ask if we can avoid accounting for our VAT liability for our first quarter?
    • WhyNot?
    • By WhyNot? 9th Jul 17, 11:00 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    WhyNot?
    can't offer anything on VAT but we're very happy with our online accountancy service. we used a local 'old school' accountant for years as we didn't know any better, old fashioned, slow with advice & never really explained things, charged us over £2k per year for the privilege too!

    I keep all our accounts simply on excel docs & send them online at our year end. accountant doesn't usually have any queries or need to send any actual documents to her either. basic queries are answered straight away by email, you can have more involved advice/guidance but think this would cost extra. we pay £650 per year inc. vat. we use
    Originally posted by AbbieCadabra
    We do something similar for our company, but use a local accountant who sorts everything out for us and files our annual accounts
    He used to charge us about £375 a year, but now we have the complication of VAT, he's warned us the price will go up by about £50

    Having said that, now we are registered for VAT, we can reclaim the VAT he charges us

    It's good with a local guy, beacuse if we ever have any queries during the year, we can call him and he's happy to advise foc (as long as it's not too complicated and time consuming, of course)
    Last edited by WhyNot?; 09-07-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 10th Jul 17, 1:24 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    When we spoke with them they told us we would have to pay the VAT from the day the accountant back dated it too. 8th may. They understod that we couldnt have charged vat at the time but that was how it was. Which is why I'm guessing the accountant said to ask the clients to pay what was owed.

    We've now sent a letter to HMRC asking to push the VAT start date to a date that suits us. It's at their discretion whether they accept though. Not heard either was as of yet.

    Give them a call and see what they say
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 10th Jul 17, 1:28 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    Thank you Abbie, we are waiting for a call back from them.

    We are getting rid of our accountant now. He hasn't done a thing other than send us a letter from HMRC for him to be able to act on our behalf.

    Does anyone know how we go about getting rid of him. Just tell him and that is it or give him notice type thing?

    We've still not had our pay slips or a wage from the business this month. He is awful.
    • Suarez
    • By Suarez 10th Jul 17, 3:33 PM
    • 928 Posts
    • 609 Thanks
    Suarez

    Does anyone know how we go about getting rid of him. Just tell him and that is it or give him notice type thing?
    Originally posted by Jm90
    Just give a written notice that you want to terminate his services.

    Are there any minimum terms within the engagement letter?

    If you are appointing a new accountant they should handle the transfer of records.
    • Jm90
    • By Jm90 10th Jul 17, 10:45 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Jm90
    Hi there. Thanks for your reply.

    Ok we will send him that tomorrow. I feel bad as it's my father in laws old accountant/friend but he's just no good. Surely he should be making our life easier, not more difficult.

    Anyway no contract or agreement was signed between him and us.

    Just a HMRC letter of consent for him to act on our behalf?
    • Suarez
    • By Suarez 11th Jul 17, 8:31 AM
    • 928 Posts
    • 609 Thanks
    Suarez
    Well that's pretty poor from the start. You should have received an engagement letter to sign which would give details on what services and responsibilities the accountant will take on for you.

    Do you know if he's practising under a professional body?

    I would just give him a letter explaining you wish to terminate his services then search for an accountant who is registered with either AAT/ACCA/ICEAW as they will be regulated and monitored for CPD, registered for MLR etc.
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