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  • FIRST POST
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 4th Jul 17, 9:56 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Marshall86
    Parking Eye - Tower Road
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 17, 9:56 PM
    Parking Eye - Tower Road 4th Jul 17 at 9:56 PM
    Hello, I thought I would come on here to see if anyone could give me a bit of advice about a parking fine I have received.

    I hired a car for a week in Cornwall. We entered a car park in Newquay (Tower Road) and we paid for 3 hours of parking. When the 3 hours were up, we were back at the car and decided to put another 3 hours on. Anyway, 3 hours later we came back to the car.

    Now the fine I have received is because we were there for 6 hours and 18 minutes. The evidence supplied is a picture of us entering the car park and then leaving the car park. I assumed the time started when we parked up and did not think that when we got back to the car, we needed to leave immediately (we spent a few minutes getting the kids changed, sun cream, finding out where we were going next etc..)

    I appealed because i assumed the time would start when we parked up and bought the ticket as opposed to when we officially entered - the appeal was unsuccessful.

    Do I basically need to pay the fine? Or is there a chance in contesting it successfully?

    Thanks for your time.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
    • 13,642 Posts
    • 21,395 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 10:49 PM
    Contest it. Have ParkingEye given you a POPLA code? Use it within its time limits. PE are nasty and don't hesitate to sue people, especially those who do not follow due process.

    How you frame your POPLA appeal (post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky tells you how to do this, including template appeal points) will depend on what you said in your initial appeal to PE.

    Can you post it here so we can advise the direction you now need to follow.

    When is your POPLA deadline?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 8th Jul 17, 9:34 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:34 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:34 AM
    Thank you for the response.

    I did get a POPLA reference code.

    In my original appeal I explained that the extra 18 minutes was when entering and leaving the car park (we paid for 3 hours - came back to the car and paid for another 3 hours).
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 8th Jul 17, 9:38 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:38 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:38 AM
    Also, I should add, it was a hire car and I was the only one insured to drive it.

    As well as the fine from parking Eye, I have to pay the hire car company £48 in admin fees
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • 13,642 Posts
    • 21,395 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jul 17, 9:54 AM
    Also, I should add, it was a hire car and I was the only one insured to drive it.
    Why would you want to do that?

    As well as the fine from parking Eye, I have to pay the hire car company £48 in admin fees
    You need to be fighting that as well. Which car hire company? Did they follow their trade association's guidelines for dealing with this?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9b0iavad3aqeh28/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf?dl=0

    Precisely what documentation has PE sent you. Was it a 'Notice to Hirer'? Did they attach a copy of your agreement with the car hire company?

    You still haven't provided us with the information we require to really help you.

    Please revisit the questions I asked in post #2; we don't ask questions just for fun! We are extremely busy most days here and it's just so frustrating and time consuming to have to read back through threads again to pick out the key questions that haven't been answered.

    We're really trying to help you, please help us.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 8th Jul 17, 10:54 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 10:54 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jul 17, 10:54 AM
    When renting the car, I had to sign to say I was the only driver (didn't think much of it as my mum doesn't drive and my partner wasn't sure she would be able to make it at the time of hiring)

    The car hire company = South Mids hire LTD

    I received an email from the car hire company to tell me that they were transferring the parking charge to me and that I needed to pay £40 plus VAT. In the email they including the invoice for the £40+VAT, the Parking charge notice and the contract that I had signed with them (stating that I would be liable for any parking charge under the road traffic act 1991). To ensure I didn't get lumped with the £100 fine, I responded to Parking Eye using the information on the email from the car hire company. Parking Eye have not actually contacted me directly.

    Apologies for not providing you with all the info - I'll try to do so now:

    I do have a POPLA reference number and the deadline is within 28 days of the rejection on 4th July - so the 1st August

    I don't know how I can find the exact wording of the appeal as they haven't sent me a copy and I don't appear to be able to view it on the parking eye website.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Jul 17, 4:36 PM
    • 14,800 Posts
    • 18,615 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 4:36 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jul 17, 4:36 PM
    the fact is that millions of people in this country are insured to drive it, so although the hirer was the only person included on the hire form for their own insurance, it does not prove who the driver was unless said driver is stupid enough to admit it

    I could have been the driver

    the hire company employees could have driven it

    the local car thief could have been the driver

    it could have been a case of TWOC for all anyone knows

    and the hire co are taking the mickey because their paperwork will not cover private parking charges

    that ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1991 does not apply on private land , so you dispute the charges and get a chargeback due to the hire co not following the BVRLA guidelines and charging money under false pretences

    it would appear that the hire co have failed under POFA2012 and not notified PE nor provided PE with copies of the hire contract , nor have PE issued a pcn in your own name due to all these failures by all parties

    however , if you have a popla code , draft a popla appeal based on post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread and read any edna basher posts for advice on popla appeals for hire cars etc

    ps:- it is not a "fine" , dont use the word "fine" (or penalty) as this gives people like the hire company ammunition to think they are right , when in fact its an INVOICE and their contract with you wont provide for issues about third party "invoices" - so whoever told YOU that it is a "fine" is a moron (that is the correct term for any person who thinks it is a "fine")
    Last edited by Redx; 08-07-2017 at 5:01 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Jul 17, 4:49 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,844 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 4:49 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 17, 4:49 PM
    In the email they including the invoice for the £40+VAT, the Parking charge notice and the contract that I had signed with them (stating that I would be liable for any parking charge under the road traffic act 1991).
    As Redx says, that's not applicable to a fake PCN from a private firm. So once you win this, we'll help you fight that £48 too.

    Anyway - important things first - in your appeal did you admit to being the driver or did you call yourself 'hirer' and not say who parked the car?

    This would have been so easy to win, had you merely waited for the Notice to Hirer to come to you and then appealed as hirer/lessee. Your POPLA appeal would have been 100% a winner because PE do not send compliant NTH paperwork.

    So, did you say who parked? Or did you say 'we' and not let on?

    Now the fine I have received is because...
    It's not a fine.

    we were there for 6 hours and 18 minutes. The evidence supplied is a picture of us entering the car park and then leaving the car park. I assumed the time started when we parked up and did not think that when we got back to the car, we needed to leave immediately (we spent a few minutes getting the kids changed, sun cream, finding out where we were going next etc..)
    Please go onto PE's website and put in the VRN and PCN number and view the details, we want to know how that 18 minutes is spread? How much was before paying, on arrival, how much time (if any) between the two payments was the car NOT covered by a ticket (if at all) and how many minutes were 'overstay' at the end after expiry of the second ticket?

    PE's website should show this, I think. Please tell us that time breakdown exactly, and whether the driver was admitted.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 08-07-2017 at 4:51 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 11th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    Sorry for the delayed reply - internet issues!!

    I did not specify that I parked the car - I would've used pronouns like 'we' but did not explicitly say I drove.

    I'm annoyed at myself for not coming on here first - I just assumed I was screwed and had to pay.


    After visiting the PE website, the information it gives me is as follows:

    Contravention Date/Time
    31/05/2017 17:16:00

    Contravention Location
    Tower Road, Newquay

    Location Address
    Tower Road, Town Centre, Newquay, TR7 1LX

    Stay Duration
    6 hours 18 minutes

    Allowed Duration
    0 hours 0 minutes

    Paid Duration
    6 hours 0 minutes (£8.00)

    Status
    Open
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Jul 17, 10:11 PM
    • 14,800 Posts
    • 18,615 Thanks
    Redx
    do you have a valid popla code ?

    when does it "run out" ?? (hint , there are 28 to 33 days for a popla appeal following the issue of the code)

    clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies (there are 2 GRACE PERIODS , one before the event and one after)

    so if you are appealing to popla , draft a popla appeal including grace periods , see post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 11th Jul 17, 10:14 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    Thank you

    I do have a popla code and it runs out on the 1st aug
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jul 17, 10:17 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,844 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are not screwed, 18 minutes either side of 6 hours paid-for time can only mean maybe 9 mins either side of the payment/parking. Well within allowed grace periods and this is something PE know full well, but they issue these like confetti anyway and pick out victims who just assume they are screwed, and pay.

    Don't be that person, grace periods will win this. Search for 'grace period observation Kelvin Reynolds POPLA' and you should find one or two good ones people have written for POPLA recently.

    Glad to hear you didn't say who was driving - now, is this a ''Golden ticket'' (our term for a slam dunk winner!), one that does not mention the POFA on the back? And was served too late, past 15 days from 31st May?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 12th Jul 17, 6:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    You are not screwed, 18 minutes either side of 6 hours paid-for time can only mean maybe 9 mins either side of the payment/parking. Well within allowed grace periods and this is something PE know full well, but they issue these like confetti anyway and pick out victims who just assume they are screwed, and pay.

    Don't be that person, grace periods will win this. Search for 'grace period observation Kelvin Reynolds POPLA' and you should find one or two good ones people have written for POPLA recently.

    Glad to hear you didn't say who was driving - now, is this a ''Golden ticket'' (our term for a slam dunk winner!), one that does not mention the POFA on the back? And was served too late, past 15 days from 31st May?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I haven't actually received a physical letter from Parking Eye; I have received an email from the car hire company with the parking charge notice attached.

    15 days after the 31st is obviously the 15th June and the letter was dated the 21st June. Unfortunately, because it is a scanned copy, I can't tell whether it mentions POFA on the back
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 17, 6:38 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,844 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Oh, OK.

    You should have waited for PE to send you your own NTH and you'd have had a slam dunk win as 'lessee/hirer' due to a lack of a proper NTH being served. Still can, if you are 100% sure about this:

    I did not specify that I parked the car - I would've used pronouns like 'we' but did not explicitly say I drove.
    If you used PE's online appeals page, are you sure you didn't choose 'driver' on the drop-down menu?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jul 17, 6:39 PM
    • 14,800 Posts
    • 18,615 Thanks
    Redx
    the hire company should have informed PE who the hirer was , that way an NTK would then arrive in the hirers name (which still does not prove who was driving)

    as you have a popla code (because you have appealed it and their rejection has included that code) - draft a popla appeal

    it would appear that nobody is doing this correctly in this particular saga
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 12th Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    Oh, OK.

    You should have waited for PE to send you your own NTH and you'd have had a slam dunk win as 'lessee/hirer' due to a lack of a proper NTH being served. Still can, if you are 100% sure about this:



    If you used PE's online appeals page, are you sure you didn't choose 'driver' on the drop-down menu?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Ah I have just looked and it does.. I would've put 'driver' here ..argh!
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 12th Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    Would appealing it purely based on the grace period alone be enough to win?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 17, 7:16 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,844 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Maybe - but you are forgetting the usual 'no landowner authority' and 'dodgy signs' as well. Those two always feature in every POPLA appeal, regardless of facts, signs, anything!

    See post #3 of the NEWBIES thread and other example cases you will have seen from that search.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jul 17, 8:43 PM
    • 14,800 Posts
    • 18,615 Thanks
    Redx
    also, you can see from this thread how yours SHOULD have gone , but you can still adapt that appeal to form your own appeal , minus the sections you cannot use, plus adding the grace periods section that your appeal needs

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5629654&page=2

    so as a minimum for your popla appeal , its

    GRACE PERIODS
    NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
    POOR SIGNAGE
    BPA CoP failures

    etc , etc

    the more procedural errors that occurred , and not blabbing about who was driving , the more could have been added , like in that successful thread above , but you have to work with one hand tied behind your back due to "ignorance" of this complicated topic
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Marshall86
    • By Marshall86 20th Jul 17, 6:02 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Marshall86
    I have been reading through the suggested appeals and have seen 'Notice to hirer' and 'Notice to keeper' both mentioned. On the page that I received (via email from the hire company) it does not state which of these it is - it only says 'Parking charge notice'
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