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    • MSE Ben
    • By MSE Ben 4th Jul 17, 4:39 PM
    • 38Posts
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    MSE Ben
    MSE News: Guest comment: Ofgem's plan for a fairer, smarter energy market
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 17, 4:39 PM
    MSE News: Guest comment: Ofgem's plan for a fairer, smarter energy market 4th Jul 17 at 4:39 PM
    Ofgem chief executive Dermot Nolan outlines the regulator's view on how to introduce more choice for consumers...
    Read the full story:
    'Guest comment: Ofgem's plan for a fairer, smarter energy market - while protecting vulnerable consumers'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 10-07-2017 at 3:35 PM.
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 4th Jul 17, 4:44 PM
    • 16,987 Posts
    • 11,174 Thanks
    molerat
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 4:44 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 4:44 PM
    Do they really put idiots like that in charge of things ?

    How about actually regulating the market properly as a first step.

    Ofgem’s principal objective is to protect the interests of existing and future consumers
    Very little evidence of that in the majority of their bright ideas recently.

    Most things they come up with are to grab tabloid headlines and show that they actually exist whilst hanging on to their high salaries.

    An organisation that is not fit for purpose, as is the ombudsman and the whole industry.
    Last edited by molerat; 04-07-2017 at 4:52 PM.
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    • gsmlnx
    • By gsmlnx 4th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    • 677 Posts
    • 545 Thanks
    gsmlnx
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    Apparently you need smart meters to have such wonders as solar panels, battery storage etc as they are the gateway to such modern miracles.
    Smart meters will act as the gateway for household appliances and services to change how and when people use - and sell - power. Time of use tariffs allow households to save money by using more energy during off-peak times. Smart appliances and battery storage will allow households to manage their demand more flexibly.
    And

    It would be a missed opportunity if most smart meters are left untouched gathering dust under the stairs. If consumers instead embrace smart meters and other new technologies, it could save billions of pounds on energy bills.
    The meter does not save any money, it is the individual who reduces their consumption or finds a cheaper price that saves money.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 4th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • 2,912 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    Xbigman
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    The problem is not that Ofgem are useless (although they are) it is that Ofgems view of what consumers want is nothing like what consumers actually want. It will always end in tears.




    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
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    Save some money
    • robin58
    • By robin58 4th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
    • 1,777 Posts
    • 1,814 Thanks
    robin58
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
    What I want is a fair price with company I'm with , with out being in the benefit section of society or a senior citizen.

    I don't want to have to change company to save money !!

    Plus having experienced smart metering over 7 years ago at a company I worked at. Yes it does make you think as a company where you can save money.

    But in a domestic setting it really means nothing. I have walked past houses that are lit up like Christmas trees, no doubt by the pushing of low consumption light bulbs which householders calculate because I'm saving electricity I can burn more but not thinking I should be burning less.
    The more I live, the more I learn.
    The more I learn, the more I grow.
    The more I grow, the more I see.
    The more I see, the more I know.
    The more I know, the more I see,
    How little I know.!!
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 4th Jul 17, 10:12 PM
    • 2,700 Posts
    • 1,647 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 17, 10:12 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 17, 10:12 PM
    So much of that comment was ridiculous.

    The so-called "smart" meters they have been rolling out are actually stupid meters. They don't work if you switch suppliers, and they don't actually save you any energy.

    However, they do make it easier for the suppliers, who don't have to read your meter. And they have a remote kill-switch, so they can cut you off if you don't pay your bill.

    As someone with solar panels, I would really like to be paid the correct amount for all the electricity I generate. But the stupid meter I have been offered hasn't been properly tested. While it can measure exported electricity, you're not allowed to use any readings it gives.

    As for battery storage, it looks like a good idea. Buy a battery, charge it up from your solar panels during the day, and get free electricity at night. There's just one little problem - they are too expensive. If I had bought a battery, then the total value of all the free electricity I would have got from it over the entire life of the battery would have been less than the cost of having the battery installed. I'm saving money by not wasting money on the battery.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • VT82
    • By VT82 5th Jul 17, 9:18 AM
    • 920 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    VT82
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:18 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 17, 9:18 AM
    The so-called "smart" meters they have been rolling out are actually stupid meters. They don't work if you switch suppliers, and they don't actually save you any energy.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Can only echo this.


    Absolute drivel in the guest comment. Come back with something of substance, instead of head in the clouds pontificating, and we might actually take you seriously.
    • redux
    • By redux 5th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • 17,098 Posts
    • 21,649 Thanks
    redux
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 17, 5:00 PM
    In the past, technology has constrained consumers from interacting in the energy market. In the future, the possibilities from new technologies and innovation will be vast. The extent to which consumers are able or willing to take advantage will be key.

    It would be a missed opportunity if most smart meters are left untouched gathering dust under the stairs. If consumers instead embrace smart meters and other new technologies, it could save billions of pounds on energy bills.
    Last year, this house used about 8 electricity units per day in summer and 9 a day in winter.

    I thought about things around 3 months ago, emptied the old second freezer, and turned off a tube heater in the bottom of the airing cupboard, for the summer.

    Now the use is 4 or 5 units a day.

    What difference could a smart meter make? Nothing will alter the TV watching hours. The wifi router telephone and central heating control are on all the time, about £5 to £9 a year each. Clocks in microwave and gas cooker might cost a quid a year each. All the lights are low energy tubes or LEDs. Don't want to turn off the fridge-freezer for too long. Charging phones and tablets costs £1 to £2 a year.

    Running the washing machine or dishwasher at a well-chosen time is about the only chance to make any difference. Average of 4 or 5 runs a week between them.

    I'd be amazed if changing washing hours could save much, but wouldn't really want to run them at 4 am anyway.
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 5th Jul 17, 5:20 PM
    • 11,195 Posts
    • 14,711 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 17, 5:20 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 17, 5:20 PM
    I think a limp trouser sausage is of much more use than Ofgem at the moment. The one thing they're expert at is missing the point for consumers while being best buddies with the suppliers.
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?
    Married to an immigrant.
    • SuiDreams
    • By SuiDreams 6th Jul 17, 1:21 PM
    • 2,204 Posts
    • 10,251 Thanks
    SuiDreams
    Agree its a load of rubbish, its not always practical to change the times of day when you use electric, for example I can't change my TV watching from evening to daytime as I'm at work during the day. I could put the washing machine on timer to run while I'm at work, but rather not have loads of wet washing sat in the washer all day going musty (and then needing an extra rinse to freshen it up).


    The time of day when most people use energy is very difficult to change. People need to be encouraged to monitor and reduce instead. Smart meters don't necessarily need to be an answer to that as its easy to monitor just by reading your meter and tracking your usage.


    Maybe they need to look at incentives to buy energy efficient appliances over cheaper less efficient models etc etc.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 6th Jul 17, 2:13 PM
    • 986 Posts
    • 1,339 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    The whole point of the Smart Meter rollout, is the introduction of time of-use-tariffs, and that's the direction the energy market is being steered, in the future? We've seen this from Green Energy UK.

    Households will be exposed to varying costs of electricity at different times of the day. The rationale being time-of-use tariffs would give customers greater control over their energy bills and encourage more rationale pricing than flat-rate deals which encourage wasteful usage at peak times.

    Time-of-use tariffs are an important part of efforts to make the electricity system more efficient and flexible as Britain phases out coal-fired power in favour of less reliable renewable energy.

    Using price signals to deter usage at times of peak demand should ease pressure on generating capacity when supplies are tight, while encouraging consumers to help absorb surplus wind and solar power at off-peak times.


    Rather similar to the proposals for our overall shopping experience?
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 6th Jul 17, 4:14 PM
    • 3,696 Posts
    • 4,551 Thanks
    zeupater
    Hi

    My view reflects most of what's been written above already ...

    It's around time that someone making 'Guest Comments' actually started to listen to the comments of others and stop preaching drivel.

    Charging consumers going on £500/household for meters which cannot possibly provide the predicted savings is not only ridiculous, but economically irresponsible ... even if the savings which were proposed at the conceptual stage of the project were deliverable, they simply aren't there to be leveraged any more. Energy efficient technologies such as LED TVs and lightbulbs are rolling out despite not having smart-meters and the IHDs to convince the consumer to 'save the planet' through EU dictate, these two technologies alone negate the need for generating capacity which roughly equates to two, yes two!, Hinckley-C power stations.

    Of course, there'll be some statistician sitting in a dark corner at Ofgem quietly attributing LED technology and other energy savings to the roll out of Smart-Metering to justify the comments and predictions made by guests, whilst almost everyone with even a little technical knowledge who sits back and employs a little logic can see the flaws in the project claims & justification ....

    I for one dare, yes dare!, the Guest Commentator to register on this site and subject their comments to the technical scrutiny of open debate they deserve ... I for one would even welcome a direct round-table discussion or debate with Ofgem or any government body willing to shine a torch on this over-bloated & unnecessarily capital intensive project especially if vested interest parties and associated lobbyists were excluded to the same extent that general public opinion representation has been to date.

    A dead parrot is a dead parrot no matter how much the pet shop owner protests, so why, oh why, does the Office of Pet Shop Regulation not recognise or understand this basic concept. It's time to remove the perch nails and stop this lucrative trade in Norwegian Blues which have already shuffled off their mortal coils before we, the consumers, get angry and demand that the government establish their version of the Spanish Inquisition ... does Ofgem really think that they can survive the rigour of soft cushions and the comfy chair with only a cup of coffee at eleven? .... Really? ... so come on Ofgem, accept the challenge, you know you're up to it, you know you really want to!

    ... No, purveyor of guest comments, don't run away, or I shall taunt you a second time ...

    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 06-07-2017 at 4:22 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • SuiDreams
    • By SuiDreams 7th Jul 17, 1:56 PM
    • 2,204 Posts
    • 10,251 Thanks
    SuiDreams
    The whole point of the Smart Meter rollout, is the introduction of time of-use-tariffs, and that's the direction the energy market is being steered, in the future? We've seen this from Green Energy UK.

    Households will be exposed to varying costs of electricity at different times of the day. The rationale being time-of-use tariffs would give customers greater control over their energy bills and encourage more rationale pricing than flat-rate deals which encourage wasteful usage at peak times.

    Time-of-use tariffs are an important part of efforts to make the electricity system more efficient and flexible as Britain phases out coal-fired power in favour of less reliable renewable energy.

    Using price signals to deter usage at times of peak demand should ease pressure on generating capacity when supplies are tight, while encouraging consumers to help absorb surplus wind and solar power at off-peak times.


    Rather similar to the proposals for our overall shopping experience?
    Originally posted by fredandwilma

    I understand the reasoning but still don't think it will work for the majority of people. I use very little electric, and due to work schedules etc, even with so called smart devices I wouldn't be able to change my usage patterns.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 7th Jul 17, 2:58 PM
    • 4,178 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    Hengus
    I understand the reasoning but still don't think it will work for the majority of people. I use very little electric, and due to work schedules etc, even with so called smart devices I wouldn't be able to change my usage patterns.
    Originally posted by SuiDreams
    Sadly, if the Canadian experience is anything to go by, you will be in the group that ends up paying more. The whole point of ToU tariffs is change usage behaviour to reduce peak demand and associated standby generation costs.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 8th Jul 17, 8:22 AM
    • 986 Posts
    • 1,339 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    I'm not advocating or agreeing with any policies, but ToU tariffs are the way the energy market will be heading, much like our overall shopping experience?:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672595
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • clivep
    • By clivep 8th Jul 17, 5:40 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    clivep
    As someone with solar panels, I would really like to be paid the correct amount for all the electricity I generate. But the stupid meter I have been offered hasn't been properly tested. While it can measure exported electricity, you're not allowed to use any readings it gives.

    As for battery storage, it looks like a good idea. Buy a battery, charge it up from your solar panels during the day, and get free electricity at night. There's just one little problem - they are too expensive. If I had bought a battery, then the total value of all the free electricity I would have got from it over the entire life of the battery would have been less than the cost of having the battery installed. I'm saving money by not wasting money on the battery.
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    Presumably you must have a generation meter for the power from the solar panel inverter so are being paid the correct amount for the electricity you are generating.

    Now the export side of the FIT is another matter and is normally deemed as 50% of that generated regardless of whether or not your import/smart meter can tell the actual export figure. Whether this is to your benefit or not depends on individual circumstances. They have stated, however, that they want to move to acurate export figures once smart meters are more widely in use.

    I agree that battery backup systems are not cost effective. Moreover part of the cost justification they try to use is that you are storing excess 'free' electricity. Once accurate metering of the exported electricity comes in then this part of the cost justification for storage goes out the window but none of the illustrations I looked at pointed this out!
    • SuiDreams
    • By SuiDreams 10th Jul 17, 1:45 PM
    • 2,204 Posts
    • 10,251 Thanks
    SuiDreams
    Sadly, if the Canadian experience is anything to go by, you will be in the group that ends up paying more. The whole point of ToU tariffs is change usage behaviour to reduce peak demand and associated standby generation costs.
    Originally posted by Hengus


    TBH thought it will only effect the usage of those who are at home all day(home workers/people who don't work). People who work full time are stuck using energy when they are home (and not sleeping), so in their case bills would likely increase, especially if you are someone who as already cut back as far as possible.
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