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    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 4th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
    • 218Posts
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    wendb69
    Office of Public Guardian Investigation - please help
    • #1
    • 4th Jul 17, 3:44 PM
    Office of Public Guardian Investigation - please help 4th Jul 17 at 3:44 PM
    A friend who has been looking after their Father, and has had an LPA enfored in the last year, has received a letter from the Office of Public Guardian who wish to investigate the finances. There is definitely no foul play.


    However, the letter was received today and their Father died at the weekend.


    Am I right in saying that the OoPG will NOT investigate if the person has died?
    Regards
    [B[/B]
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 4th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    • 2,616 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Jul 17, 3:55 PM
    If they suspect there has been fraud then it will have happened before the death. IMHO they would be failing in their duty if they did not do regardless of the donor having died.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 4th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • 3,260 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Jul 17, 4:26 PM
    This would only happen if th OoPG had received a complaint from someone else. Does your friend have any siblings?
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 4th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    • 2,361 Posts
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    securityguy
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:50 PM
    If they suspect there has been fraud then it will have happened before the death. IMHO they would be failing in their duty if they did not do regardless of the donor having died.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    This case:

    http://www.39essex.com/cop_cases/re-joan-treadwell/

    makes it quite clear that such actions can take place after death.
    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 4th Jul 17, 5:52 PM
    • 218 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    wendb69
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:52 PM
    Found this
    • #5
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:52 PM
    Managed to find this on the Scottish site. Looking for something similar for England.

    What does the Investigation Team NOT do?
    We do not:
    • Investigate concerns relating to an adult’s personal welfare.
    • Attempt to resolve any personal or family disagreement.
    • Retrieve debt of any kind owed to a third party by the adult.
    • Investigate concerns relating to a capable adult or continue to investigate concerns/complaints if medical evidence confirms that an adult is capable of managing theirown finances.
    • Commence or continue to investigate following the death of the adult.
    Regards
    [B[/B]
    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 4th Jul 17, 5:55 PM
    • 218 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    wendb69
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:55 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:55 PM
    This case:

    http://www.39essex.com/cop_cases/re-joan-treadwell/

    makes it quite clear that such actions can take place after death.
    Originally posted by securityguy
    Can you help me in locating the paragraph in which it says this. Also is his for a matter in England??
    Regards
    [B[/B]
    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 4th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
    • 218 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    wendb69
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Jul 17, 5:56 PM
    This would only happen if th OoPG had received a complaint from someone else. Does your friend have any siblings?
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    1 sibling that has done nothing for 10 years and was suspended as a previous attorney.
    Regards
    [B[/B]
    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 4th Jul 17, 6:00 PM
    • 218 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    wendb69
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 17, 6:00 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Jul 17, 6:00 PM
    This case:

    http://www.39essex.com/cop_cases/re-joan-treadwell/

    makes it quite clear that such actions can take place after death.
    Originally posted by securityguy
    It's say that OoPG had pursued it as they had been "actively" involved before her death. This hasn't been the case here. 1st letter a week after death.
    Regards
    [B[/B]
    • leespot
    • By leespot 4th Jul 17, 6:10 PM
    • 547 Posts
    • 432 Thanks
    leespot
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 17, 6:10 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Jul 17, 6:10 PM
    The only people that will be able to tell you if they will continue to investigate is the OoPG - your friend needs to phone them and ask.

    Sounds to me like the other sibling has spat their dummy out and made a complaint. Is there an estate that they are also being cut out of now their father has died?
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 4th Jul 17, 6:30 PM
    • 2,361 Posts
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    securityguy
    It's say that OoPG had pursued it as they had been "actively" involved before her death. This hasn't been the case here. 1st letter a week after death.
    Originally posted by wendb69
    Unless the previous suspension of another attorney is sufficient. As others have said: the only answer is to speak to the OPG.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 4th Jul 17, 9:15 PM
    • 949 Posts
    • 1,562 Thanks
    troubleinparadise
    Wendb69 - hopefully your friend has kept good records and orderly paperwork in her dealings as Attorney for her father.

    If that is the case, then she should have nothing to fear from the OPG.

    The OPG will investigate if they feel there is a good case to do so; the death of the Donor wouldn't stop an investigation if it was felt necessary. However, the OPG is not unaware that complaints aren't always true - so again, if there is no wrongdoing then there is nothing to worry about.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 4th Jul 17, 9:44 PM
    • 3,260 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    1 sibling that has done nothing for 10 years and was suspended as a previous attorney.
    Originally posted by wendb69
    I am willing to bet that person is the source of the complaint.
    • wendb69
    • By wendb69 10th Jul 17, 11:09 AM
    • 218 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    wendb69
    ***UPDATE***


    Just to let you know, that the OPG has confirmed that as the person (whose LPA is was) has died, they will not start or proceed with any investigation.
    Regards
    [B[/B]
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 10th Jul 17, 11:19 AM
    • 2,616 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    ***UPDATE***


    Just to let you know, that the OPG has confirmed that as the person (whose LPA is was) has died, they will not start or proceed with any investigation.
    Originally posted by wendb69
    If there was fraud that would be appalling.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Jul 17, 12:09 PM
    • 29,122 Posts
    • 17,416 Thanks
    getmore4less
    These are current E&W OPG guidlelines


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safeguarding-policy-protecting-vulnerable-adults/sd8-opgs-safeguarding-policy


    16.2
    OPG doesn’t have legal power to investigate in these cases:

    Concerns about the actions of former deputies or receivers
    If there are concerns about the actions of a deputy whose appointment has ended, or a former receiver (someone whose appointment ended before 1 October 2007), OPG will usually advise that it’s a matter for the current deputy, if there is one, to deal with. This includes where the former deputy or receiver has died.

    If the Court of Protection ends a deputyship because of concerns about the deputy’s actions, the court may order any new deputy to investigate the former deputy or receiver.

    Sometimes concerns are raised after the client has died. Any deputyship ends when the client dies. It’s then the responsibility of the client’s personal representatives to deal with any investigation. In cases where a deputy has been discharged, or the deputy or client has died, and OPG has concerns about possible financial abuse, we can call for a final report from the former deputy (or the personal representatives of the deputy if the deputy has died).

    If the Public Guardian is not satisfied with the report, we may apply to the Court of Protection for enforcement of the security bond (a sum of money, a bit like an insurance policy, that’s paid to the bond provider to protect a client’s money) under Regulation 40 of the Public Guardian Regulations 2007. This only applies to deaths or discharges after 1 October 2007.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 10th Jul 17, 12:13 PM
    • 2,386 Posts
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    Malthusian
    If there was fraud that would be appalling.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    If there was fraud you would expect the executors or the beneficiaries who lost out from the fraud to sue.

    And if the fraud meets the criminal threshold it would be a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service.

    *edit* The job of the OPG is to protect the interests of those who cannot make decisions for themselves - that person no longer needs the OPG's protection, and the interests of their beneficiaries are not the OPG's remit.
    Last edited by Malthusian; 10-07-2017 at 12:16 PM.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 10th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 2,616 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    If there was fraud you would expect the executors or the beneficiaries who lost out from the fraud to sue.

    And if the fraud meets the criminal threshold it would be a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service.

    *edit* The job of the OPG is to protect the interests of those who cannot make decisions for themselves - that person no longer needs the OPG's protection, and the interests of their beneficiaries are not the OPG's remit.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    I agree that the PR should take action but it is the OPG washing their hands that seems so wrong. Any fraud that took place under their oversight IS their responsibility.
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