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  • FIRST POST
    • jonewer
    • By jonewer 3rd Jul 17, 11:54 AM
    • 1,460Posts
    • 1,679Thanks
    jonewer
    Laptop guidance!
    • #1
    • 3rd Jul 17, 11:54 AM
    Laptop guidance! 3rd Jul 17 at 11:54 AM
    Hello!

    I'm looking to buy a laptop for general media and entertainment purposes with occasional office use also, ideally I'd like an SSD and a DVD drive.

    I'm looking at spending up to £350 but have no idea what I should be looking for.

    Can anyone advise?

    Thanks!
    Mortgage debt - £8,811.47 Paid off!
Page 2
    • jonewer
    • By jonewer 5th Jul 17, 6:21 AM
    • 1,460 Posts
    • 1,679 Thanks
    jonewer
    Thanks guys!

    I actually have some experience of messing with partitions back when I was trying to get Linux working on a Win 98 machine. That was quite a while back!

    I'll probably just go for a clean install on the SSD and not bother with the RAM - I seem to have a reverse Midas touch with computer components where everything I touch turns to sh*t, so I'll keep my fiddlings to a minimum.

    How do I go about the install then?
    Mortgage debt - £8,811.47 Paid off!
    • DavidP24
    • By DavidP24 5th Jul 17, 9:23 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    DavidP24
    I have three of the Toshiba Q300 fitted for more than a year to varied machines. Zero failure rate so far. Paid £30 each.
    Though saying that, I'm using the Samsung EVO 850 on my most utilised machine.

    I'm going to disagree with the cloning. Clean install every time. The last thing they want to do is to move over the old bundled and redundant software and all the old stuff they should have cleaned up over the years.
    Bookmarks etc can be backed up and restored or simply retrieved from the old HDD.

    Also a clean install ensures proper alignment. Otherwise you'll need specialist cloning software to align for SSD. Then there is AHCI. Is it enabled now or not?

    I wholehearted disagree with messing around with partitions and cloning.

    Quoting "10 million updates" to bolster your argument is somewhat disingenuous. Much better to have a clean install with minimal updates, than to have years of old installers and registry entries.

    Sometime you need to redecorate. Sand down and some fresh paint, instead of just painting over the old paint.

    A new clean install without unnecessary rubbish. The OP will be impressed by the improvement in performance and will be more inclined to keep it that way.
    Originally posted by WAYT
    Yep have to agree to respectfully disagree on cloning and partitions.

    The software I recommended has a specific option for cloning to SSD

    Partitions are beyond some people but the rewards are great.

    I did look at the Toshiba and I am sure for some it is fine but based on the reviews over 15% had terrible reviews, that is just too many in my experience, the fact that the unit was replaced promptly suggests to me a manufacturing defect, maybe possible corrected by firmware update, has happened before for performance reasons with SSD firmware.

    The OP will be blown away by the performance no matter what, it is just they will lose days of their time for very little tangible benefit, all software will have to be reinstalled.

    If you look at any professional IT environment they not only build system images but they are de facto standard across the enterprise.

    If the original PC had a problem (such as a very low RAM) I would encourage they fix that because the swapping to a page file would still be an engineering problem, the SSD would help but it would be detrimental to the SSD because it would increase the number of writes substantially and there is a limit to the number of writes to an SSD. However, for cloning a boot partition, there is no logical technical reason other than liking to build fresh.

    It is the windows profile that slows a user down, this can be demonstrated by the OP simply by creating a new one on old machine, the would do well to clean up old profile with ccleaner and the tools I recommend in the following post

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5572567#8
    Last edited by DavidP24; 05-07-2017 at 9:34 AM.
    Thanks, don't you just hate people with sigs !
    • DavidP24
    • By DavidP24 5th Jul 17, 9:45 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    DavidP24
    Thanks guys!

    I actually have some experience of messing with partitions back when I was trying to get Linux working on a Win 98 machine. That was quite a while back!

    I'll probably just go for a clean install on the SSD and not bother with the RAM - I seem to have a reverse Midas touch with computer components where everything I touch turns to sh*t, so I'll keep my fiddlings to a minimum.

    How do I go about the install then?
    Originally posted by jonewer
    Based on what you have said I suspect that you have windows recovery partitions hidden on your current hard disk, these can be activated by certain boot processes but ironically you would need to clone the partitions to SSD (in exact order) to run them from there, alternatively if you let us know the exact version of Windows on your sticker WAYT or myself can post you a link to an ISO you can download and burn to USB or DVD.

    This post explains the process, do not do it on old disk as it will wipe your data and windows.

    HP G72-260US Notebook PC. If so, start the PC and at the HP welcome screen, tap the F11 key to launch the recovery dialog. Make sure you back up any files you want to keep before doing the above, as a factory system recovery will wipe the hard drive.
    https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/Factory-Restore-No-Disc-HP-G72-260US-Notebook-PC/td-p/1021327

    Now would be a good time to decide if you want to run Win10 (I wouldn't bother if you have Win7 key but would if you had Vista)

    I have dual boot of Win10 and Win7 on my SSD, both were cloned.

    How much ram do you have on Laptop?
    Thanks, don't you just hate people with sigs !
    • WAYT
    • By WAYT 5th Jul 17, 9:50 AM
    • 359 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    WAYT
    Thanks guys!

    I actually have some experience of messing with partitions back when I was trying to get Linux working on a Win 98 machine. That was quite a while back!

    I'll probably just go for a clean install on the SSD and not bother with the RAM - I seem to have a reverse Midas touch with computer components where everything I touch turns to sh*t, so I'll keep my fiddlings to a minimum.

    How do I go about the install then?
    Originally posted by jonewer
    I sent you instructions yesterday. Keep up.
    • WAYT
    • By WAYT 5th Jul 17, 9:52 AM
    • 359 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    WAYT
    Yep have to agree to respectfully disagree on cloning and partitions.

    The software I recommended has a specific option for cloning to SSD

    Partitions are beyond some people but the rewards are great.

    I did look at the Toshiba and I am sure for some it is fine but based on the reviews over 15% had terrible reviews, that is just too many in my experience, the fact that the unit was replaced promptly suggests to me a manufacturing defect, maybe possible corrected by firmware update, has happened before for performance reasons with SSD firmware.
    Originally posted by DavidP24
    Honestly....I don't know why you would keep pushing this clearly flawed 'advice'. It is clearly inappropriate.
    Think about it for a second.
    Why on earth would the OP want to have a mirror image of a "painfully slow" install??

    The specification itself is quite acceptable. So the reason for the slow running is likely either overheating or the agglomeration of what is installed.

    So no OP, do not clone to the image what you have to the SSD. Wow.....

    Toshiba SSD; All of mine have the latest firmware applied on receipt. No problems at all.
    As to the hypothesis to Amazon replacing the unit promptly, Amazon replaces all purchases promptly. So I don't know what that has to do with anything.
    I am writing from experience, not hearsay.

    Where are those links to the 850 PRO? Might get one for myself.
    • DavidP24
    • By DavidP24 5th Jul 17, 10:34 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    DavidP24
    It is not flawed advice, very "nd" comment that,

    You also ASSUME you are the only one with experience or that your experience is somehow better than others, then you attack others for offering different options. You even have the temerity to insult the OP by telling them to keep up.

    As for Amazon, you are not suggesting the OP buys it from Amazon but as a discontinued product from Viking, so Amazon is NOT going to replace it!

    Back to the clone vs fresh

    It is quite simple....

    Good Engineering!

    For example a bad engineer repeatedly tells users to reboot to fix a problem

    This will not help them solve the underlying problem.

    A good engineer monitors and tracks the problem using event logs and all other tools at disposal, they may stop and start processes, they eventually find out what the problem is. Then fixes it.

    You as assuming the slowless is caused by a poor install, when you have no evidence of exactly what the problem is.

    Some speed issues are caused by the Windows Updates and they will move to the new machine, this can be demonstrated by doing a fresh install, then running an App like Excel and looking at the memory and CPU utilisation, then installing the plethora of Windows updates and comparing same.

    If the actual problem is low ram, the laptop will be swapping to disk all the time, moving to SSD will help but the problem will not only remain but risk the SSD. Upgrading that ram will reduce page writes and thus preserve the life of the SSD.

    The Performance Tab of Task Manager will show if this is indeed part of the problem

    Looking at this image you can see 74% utilisation but also that this 4gb machine has created an 880mb page file and only has 128mb of free ram, so it will be swapping in and out of that 880mb all the time.



    As the disk is the slowest component an SSD will make this happen faster so the laptop will feel faster BUT it will be much faster if it does not have to page at all when Ram is upgraded.

    You see, good engineering is about determining the actual problem AND FIXING IT.

    I did suggest cleaning up the profile before the clone and if the profile were the only problem just creating a new one would show an improvement, but the post I referred to shows the OP how to remove bloat and check for malware.

    Failure to understand and address the problems that caused the performance issue will inevitably lead to a repeat of it.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5572567#8

    Some of these things may sound complicated but they are easy if you take them step by step.
    Thanks, don't you just hate people with sigs !
    • WAYT
    • By WAYT 5th Jul 17, 11:37 AM
    • 359 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    WAYT
    It is not flawed advice,

    Originally posted by DavidP24
    Apologies for my not wanting to waste my time in reading your long winded reply.

    My question was simply "why would the OP wish to clone an already "painfully slow" install?

    Keep it short if you please, if you want anyone to actually bother to read your posts.

    If they wanted to spend hours on 'speeding it up', they could have done that in the first place, without the need of swapping to SSD. Mirroring the image will only mask the issue.


    Secondly, the Toshiba Q300 has a 3 Year warranty, so it will be replaced if faulty regardless of whether sold by Viking or Amazon.

    Thirdly, I am still waiting for the links to the Samsung 850 PRO that you recommended earlier in the thread.
    • DavidP24
    • By DavidP24 5th Jul 17, 11:49 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    DavidP24
    If you take the time to read posts your question would be answered

    No point saying more
    Thanks, don't you just hate people with sigs !
    • WAYT
    • By WAYT 5th Jul 17, 11:53 AM
    • 359 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    WAYT
    If you take the time to read posts your question would be answered

    No point saying more
    Originally posted by DavidP24
    I don't think that it was answer to that question. Nevertheless, quite happy to move on from that.

    How about the links to the £60 Samsung 850 PRO you mooted earlier?
    Now that would be useful. But you seem to pass over that request time and time again.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 5th Jul 17, 1:20 PM
    • 6,927 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    almillar
    Thanks but you might have to explain how I do this - when I got the laptop there was no Windows DVD, it was already installed on the HDD, so how would I run install the OS from a USB? Won't it ask me for a licence key or some such?
    You can download Windows 10 from MS with no licence. There's a little program they provide, I can't remember the name, which fetches the latest Win 10 build and will write it on to a USB stick for you, or burn onto a CD. I think you need 4GB but 8 GB would be safer.
    If your computer came with Windows 10, you simply don't need a licence key, the computer's hardware is registered. If you get asked for it during installation, you should be able ot skip, and it'll activate once installed.

    I would not bother doing from scratch, just clone your existing partition,
    It seems that the computer is pretty bogged down, so I think that doing it from scratch is a good idea in this instance. (yes, I read your post DavidP24 - what if OP has a virus he doesn't know about, just as ONE example of why fresh installs are good?!)

    There is actually a Windows 7 product key on the back
    OK then, I think you already have instructions here to reinstall 7, then put 10 on. Make sure that 7 is Activated before you try to install 10.
    • toshi
    • By toshi 14th Jul 17, 9:50 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    toshi
    DavidP24, WAYT and other great MSE SSD users

    You guys shared interesting issues. Please let me follow some, hope not too late!

    Cloning vs. Clean installation

    I have used both methods; both have advantages, it depends upon the situation. It would be a good idea to make a fresh installation with new SSD. You don't have to make a backup etc. (This would be the best chance to perform a fresh installation) on the other hand; you can say that messy dirty registry file fragmented Windows hard disk slowness would be overcome by an SSD. If you want to experience between Hard disk and SSD, you just make a disk-clone, then you can feel the actual performance improvement of SSD.

    I personally love cloning and disk partitioning, call me lazy lol. If you have an OS image partition at the original hard disk, you simply clone (copy) this OS backup partition to a new SSD, you can make a fresh installation from a brand new SSD! So fresh installation will even much be faster.

    Windows 7 to 10 upgrade is very messy (and in my case failed with a hard disk) so anybody who intend to perform this path, I recommend SSD diskclone method BEFORE upgrading Windows 10. Then upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 will be much quicker and stable without a failure than hard disk Windows 7. (again I am not against Windows 10 fresh installation , it really depends)

    So whatever you do, the first thing you need is to install an SSD lol. You would realise the most of unknown your computer problems may be caused by slow hard disk...

    Toshiba Q300

    As DavidP24 observed, Toshiba Q300 used to have very serious quality issue, but I have found out that Toshiba Q300 has 2 versions, using different NAND memory.

    To WAYT, you said you have 3 Toshiba Q300s, please let me know these product codes? Which one have you got? HDTS7 or HDTS8 or both? After making confirmation, I would be able to update Toshiba Q300 information.

    Last not least, please share your SSD experiences and tips at the SSD thread, I want to keep alive this one I am going to post my SSD installation diary there. (I will install an SSD at my volunteer workshop soon)

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5653629

    Happy SSD computing
    Last edited by toshi; 14-07-2017 at 10:02 AM. Reason: minor correction
    • psychic teabag
    • By psychic teabag 14th Jul 17, 10:09 AM
    • 2,581 Posts
    • 1,525 Thanks
    psychic teabag
    Thanks for the input

    15" would probably be better for the occasional office use.
    Originally posted by jonewer
    Just plug into an external monitor when you want to do office stuff ?

    We have an eeepc (= tiny screen), but OH used it daily for work (as a thin client) by just plugging in a real mouse, keyboard and monitor.
    • WAYT
    • By WAYT 14th Jul 17, 10:48 AM
    • 359 Posts
    • 140 Thanks
    WAYT
    davidp24, wayt and other great mse ssd users



    toshiba q300

    as davidp24 observed, toshiba q300 used to have very serious quality issue, but i have found out that toshiba q300 has 2 versions, using different nand memory.

    To wayt, you said you have 3 toshiba q300s, please let me know these product codes? Which one have you got? Hdts7 or hdts8 or both? After making confirmation, i would be able to update toshiba q300 information.



    Happy ssd computing
    Originally posted by toshi
    hdts8

    ..........
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